The NdB Sunday Show: Ret.) Col Chris Wyatt - Cyril "Stalingrad Presidency", Steenhuisen’s "missed mission" - and refugee drama

In the latest NdB Sunday Show with Chris Steyn, US intelligence analyst, retired Colonel Chris Wyatt comments on the likelihood of US President Donald Trump imposing personal sanctions on some South African politicians in the face of continued provocation from the African National Congress (ANC); President Cyril Ramaphosa’s SONA speech; his decision to send in the military to fight crime; the crime cartel infiltrated SAPS; the performance of Agriculture Minister John Steenhuisen who has abandoned his bid for re-election as Democratic Alliance (DA) leader; as well as the bad treatment received by some of the 2,000 odd South African refugees that have gone to America..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here:.Listen here:.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.072)Welcome to the NdB Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn and US intelligence analyst, retired Colonel Chris Wyatt. Morning, Colonel. Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (00:10.754)Good morning, Chris. I like the way you always describe my title. You get it correct. A lot of people want to call me a Colonel. Some people call me the so-called Colonel. You've got it correct. I'm Colonel retired and I am an intelligence analyst. So thank you so much for the introduction. It's good to see you. I hope your day is going well. Chris Steyn (00:24.816)You're welcome. Yes, thank you. I have a question that people keep asking me and that I can't answer and I hope you may be able to answer. When will the United States impose personal sanctions on certain South African political leaders? Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (00:42.254)Well, it certainly is a question that's being bandied about for quite some time now, Chris. And some people are saying that Trump, is that it? The Taco Tuesday, Trump chickens out again or something like that. They haven't applied that to South Africa, but they certainly say that about a lot of other places. What I'll say is that when Trump is ready, it'll happen if it's going to happen. We saw that with Iran's nuclear facility, Iranians playing games and Trump sent this most amasing mission. It was, was actually ironic. I watched this unfold and people were like, look at these aircraft flying across the Pacific. I'm like, okay, that seems kind of distractionary when they're actually flying in the other direction. It was a brilliant operation. No, when Trump is ready to do something, he will, but I have no indications the Trump administration has any intent of doing that. I know they've looked at it because I'll just leave it at that. I know that they've looked at it and it's something that they've considered. The problem with doing this is that you have to be very careful because there are political elites who still consider the ANC the liberation movement that they're not. They still consider them to be the golden child that they're not. These people have not woken up to the disastrous macroeconomic performance, the looting, the criminality, the racism, the bigotry, the division that have been sown by this political party and this government for 30 plus years. Some would say that's not true. It's really only 15 years, but whether it's been 15 or 30 years really isn't germane. The issue is the country is just being destroyed from within. So there are a lot of these elites, particularly in Europe, and Trump does have to consider the impact of other states. You know, I mean, look at what already happened here. We have the ANC hoodwinking many South Africans into believing that Trump targeted South Africa with his executive order, but he didn't. South Africa had been in violation of the African Growth and Opportunity Act since at least 2018 with the introduction of the Expropriation Without Compensation bill, and therefore they no longer upheld the standards of an agreement they voluntarily entered to get duty-free access to this market. And from 2018 until the AGOA expired on 30 September 2025, South Africa was allowed to participate in it, while at the same time getting duty-free access to our marketplace, while imposing 70% tariffs on our poultry products and limiting our products with quotas and artificial barriers, as well as blocking our pork products, the best pork products on the planet. All of this, not to mention the foreign policy things that South Africa's government did against the United States. Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (03:04.566)…and no government, the previous Trump administration, the Obama administration, the Bush administration, the Biden administration, none of them took any actions. So will Trump do something as a question? And that's what you've asked me. I don't know, but the problem is that at the moment, I believe any action he takes is going to be viewed or it's going to be used to play the role of victim. The ANC has set themselves up to be the victim here. They're the antagonist. They're the ones that continue to do that. They're the ones that invite a terror designated Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy ship to participate in naval exercise and then pretend that, well, the Chinese are responsible, not us, it's on the Chinese, we told them to stop. You know, get control of your military. Or it's either doing what you want it to do and you're lying about it or you don't have control of it. But there's some very serious concerns here. I think Trump is really focused on other issues at the moment. I mean, he's got trade issues to deal with. He's got Democrats in Congress that trying to shut down the government, over lies about what ICE is doing and not doing…the Immigration Custom Enforcement agency simply enforcing the law that Congress passed and past presidents have signed. Criminal alienators who have filed deportation orders, who've committed felonies, rapists, murderers, bank robbers, you know, spousal abusers. These people have been judged and they're supposed to out of the country. And what has happened in Minneapolis, for instance, to get away from this a little bit, I'll get back to the topic here, is that the federal government has sent these agents to capture these criminals who are illegally in the country and have committed dangerous felonies and deport them because they've been ordered out of the country. They've had due process, even though they're not even Americans. And the city of Minneapolis, St. Paul, for instance, refused to turn over 1,465 convicted felons to the federal government that were in their custody. They weren't even being asked to hunt them down. 470 of these dangerous people were released back on the streets of Minneapolis, St. Paul. What harm have they done? That's all the federal government is doing. This thing has turned all over the place. So Trump is more concerned about those issues, also about Ukraine, about North Korea, about many other issues. I mean, in the meantime, he's negotiating peace agreements all over the planet. Some hold, some don't, but the guy's pretty busy. South Africa, unfortunately, although many South Africans seem to think it's the centre of the universe, it's not even remotely the centre of the universe for the Trump administration or for America. Africa policy has never been paramount for any president in the history of United States, except maybe Jefferson who went to fight the Barbary pirates in North Africa and George Walker Bush, who put a lot of effort in Africa. Beyond that, Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (05:27.694)…it’s really not a major issue for the United States. Will he do it? I don't know, but certainly the justification for doing it has been there since the day he became president in the second term. Chris Steyn (05:38.322)Okay. Let us go to President Cyril Ramaphosa State of the Nation Address. Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (05:50.125)Well, Chris, the State of the Nation Address, what shall I say about this? That was interesting. When did it end? I was covering it live, an hour and 40 minutes into it, I had an interview that I had scheduled. I had to excuse myself because it just didn't end. An hour and 40 minutes of reading a teleprompter. I won't use the phrase I use about myself because people will call me a racist if I use that phrase about being a better dressed something standing at the top of podium there. But the point is, wow, an hour and 40 minutes and… I seem to remember much of this speech from past years, lots of promises, talk about artificial intelligence and you didn't use the phrase, but the Fourth Industrial Revolution when the government of South Africa can't fix potholes or deliver electricity or provide law enforcement or prosecute criminals successfully or provide medical care to its citizens and runs around being beggars crying, Apartheid, vaccine apartheid. I really was disappointed. He sat there and talked about South Africa turning a corner while at the same time declaring a national state of disaster for Foot and Mouth disease finally years after the fact, which makes it four states of disaster that South Africa is currently experiencing, gender-based violence, Foot and Mouth disease, and two others. Wow, for a country that's turned the corner, a lot of bad things seem to be happening, to quote Donald Trump, a lot of bad things are happening in South Africa. The speech was not even a nothing burger. And for once we heard murmurs in the gallery of people actually booing and hissing when he talked about…by the way, Chris, I'm going to form a task team to find out why our views aren't millions on this programme. And I'm going to form a task team to inspect that task team. And then there'll be another task team. My goodness. A task team. Wow. A special investigation. There's a special investigation for everything and nothing ever comes of it. Even members of his own party sitting there, stone-faced and just in disbelief. The man has become as popular as what's unpopular. I don't know: the All Blacks during a rugby match against the Sprinboks. This is, this was so sad to see so disappointing. It reminded me of John Steenhuisen's victory speech when he said he's not going to run for re for the leader of the party once more while we've accomplished this, we've accomplished that. Who are you diluting? And Ramaphosa is talking about the country turning the corner. It has not turned the corner. Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (08:10.678)Well, we've escaped the Financial Action Task Force. Yeah, but not because the reasons you should be on it. The reason South Africa should be on that list is because of terror funding and money laundering, both of which continue unabated in South Africa. Your financial restrictions, your financial oversight do not stop that from happening. It's a funding source for these things and a way for money to be laundered and washed around the planet, which do harm to millions of people. So there's that. Then, you know, our credit rating has been uprated. Yeah, OK. You still have junk bonds, people still have to borrow money at like 12 or 14% instead of five or 6%. You know, this is lipstick on a pig is the best way to describe this. Describing this as lipstick on a pig, think is the way to say it. It was disappointing on so many levels. And then he talks about things, one of which we'll talk about in a moment, sure, that just beggar the imagination, deploying the army to fix crime. I guess we should probably talk about that. Chris Steyn (09:05.276)Please, deploying the army to fight crime, especially in the gang lands of the Cape Flats. Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (09:14.392)Well, first off, let's be very clear. The Constitution does allow this. The president has the authority to do this. He just has to inform Parliament and take a few steps. But what are we talking about here? I found it fascinating that a poll a few months back that was conducted found that something like 60 or 70 percent of young adults in South Africa thought that the military should run the country. I was gobsmacked when I saw that. I mean, the only thing I think much the military can run is a Chicken Lickin’. I mean, you know, the obesity of the general officers is epic. I mean, there are more general officers that float in ocean than there are ships and capital ships in the South African Navy. It's sad. And this is a military that's been underfunded with less than 1% of GDP for decades now, or around 1% of GDP, which is wholly insufficient. A healthy military,a neat, and that's a military that where the soldiers get trained properly to do what they're supposed to so they're not a danger or threat to themselves or others. A military that maintains its equipment and acquires new equipment as equipment ages out. And a military that can actually be deployed is one that gets at least 3% of GDP. South Africa hasn't put that much money into these military since the days of the National Party. It's shocking how little money goes into it. And the SANDF is a little more than a jobs programme for historically disadvantaged people these days. It's not much more than that. We've seen the SANDF deployed to the DRC over the past 25 years. Now they're withdrawing. And the recent deployment, they were sent there to do peacemaking, not peace, not peacekeeping, peacemaking in Eastern Congo. They sent soldiers without tents, boots, uniforms, body armor, Kevlar helmets. They didn't even send helicopters from Medevac because they don't have operational helicopters anymore. A couple work. I think we saw one of the few four operational Oryx flying, you know, during the ceremony. Also, I stand on correction, but those sure didn't look like Grippen fighters during the overflight in Cape Town at City Hall, by the way, because Parliament still burnt because they didn't provide oversight. The cops didn't do their job. They had cameras to watch the guy in the building for 18 hours who torched the place. But they embarrassingly have to have their Parliament in City Hall, not because it's being renovated, not because, you know, the building was being upgraded, but because they failed to protect it. So I watched the aircraft flying overhead and those aircraft, I believe, were the Hawk lead-in fighter trainers that were part of that arms package that Jacob Zuma has been implicated in for 25 years, yet not prosecuted over. Trainers, they flew through trainer, three trainer aircraft. That was their salute instead of the high quality Grippen fighters, only two of which apparently operational out of the 18 that they purchased. Sad state of affairs, but the military to fight crime..Read more:.(Ret.) Col Chris Wyatt - The NdB Sunday Show: Time for “serious external look” at SA’s “cover-ups…”.Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (11:42.691)Well, if this isn't an admission that the police are broken. It's an absolute admission that South African Police Service is completely broken. Of course, nobody paying attention needs to be reminded of that. We've seen the Madlanga Commission, what's going on there. I mean, it's just disgraceful with the leadership, but that's also not a surprise. Most people suspected or knew already that this was going on for a long time. It's finally getting sunlight, but nothing will come of that. They won't say anything. Maybe a token, you know, head will roll, but nothing serious is going to come of it. No jail time for these folks. But I mean, the police have long been infiltrated by gangsters. Remember Jackie Selebi? You know, he was in charge of Interpol as well. Yeah, he's a criminal. So it doesn't surprise me that he wants to use the army because he's just trying to kick the can down the road. He's just trying to push the ball to the side. I just keep it's like these, you know, people keep talking about Jacob Zuma and the Stalingrad Defense, you know, because he's an octogenarian. He keeps pushing the cases. He argues that Billy Downer should be a prosecutor. And it makes this argument. He follows this lawsuit just trying to kick it down the road. I think we can start to call Ramaphosa’s time as president the Stalingrad Presidency because he never does anything. He simply forms a task team and says, we'll look into it. It's time for a party renewal. We're going to fix this. And the actions he takes don't do anything to improve South Africa. And this is one of those that won't improve South Africa. The military going into …Mannenberg and the Cape Flats and Mitchell's Plains is not going to change the game. And we're going to have another …. situation where an innocent South African is beaten to death or murdered by untrained ill-disciplined troops. And I'm not trying to speak ill of the SANDF, but this is just going to happen. It's going to happen. If it doesn't happen, I'll be shocked. The military, the thing that gets me the most about this, Chris, is that this is the same country where the world looked and was reviled by seeing the military deployed to Soweto in 1976. And again, especially in 1985, when it took nine months to quell the insurrection taking place in the townships, the military was sent out to do policing and the world looked in horror and South Africans looked in horror. Here we are 40 years later and the first thought is let's deploy the military. That'll solve the problem. You would think that a legacy, we talk about legacy and history of South Africa and let's not forget things. How in the world do people forget the role of military play? And I'm not disparaging the military of the old SADF, we're in the SANDF now. What I'm saying is that you would think in a country people would be a little hesitant, a little… Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (14:08.256)…introspective, little gun shy about using the military to go into townships to police these townships. What is the difference between a white minority government doing it and a black majority government doing the same thing to these same neighbourhoods? I think especially in Cape Flats, which are overwhelmingly, well heavily Coloured populated, that is not going to go very well with that group of people. Whether it's white soldiers or black soldiers, Coloured are going to feel oppressed when they show up in… Now, some people are going to cheer and go, yay, thank you, you're going to stop the gangs, but that will be short lived and will not be successful. I mean, a military that can't pay its soldiers, then I'm talking about their danger payers, a military that can't put equipment on soldiers, a military that ran away from rebels, a better equipped band of rebels chased the SANDF out of the Congo after 25 years of being there. Let's think about that for just a moment. This is a military, you're going to say, a military that bought 18 Grippens, two operational, they have one qualified pilot. He's the instructor pilot. That's only one than can fly the damn planes. You have the Hawk lead and fighter trainers, at least three have gotten here the other day….there are three type 209 diesel submarines. None are operational. You have three frigates. One is operational. This is a military that hasn't bought a new prime mover since the end of the Cold War and the end of Apartheid. I mean, the ANC has been living off the legacy of what it inherited, but it can't do it anymore. It's pushed all the technicians who are white, Coloured, and Indian out of all the key places, ESKOM, South African Airways, Transnet, the rails, the ports. They're all gone - and no one else is maintaining this thing. And it doesn't have anything to do with skin colour. It has to do with the system of patronage and cadre enrichment. South Africa is falling and the answer to the security problem in Gauteng and in the Cape Flats is not the military. It's a restructured, revamped, resourced, trained, accountable police, which is not going to happen anytime in near future. And it's really sad to see the Ramaphosa grasping at strawn and go, we're going to deploy the military. How long, Chris, before Cape Flats crime is declared a state of disaster? And that'll be his next state of disaster and testing. It's really disheartening. Chris Steyn (16:10.236)Chris, let's talk about our Minister of Agriculture, John Steenhuisen. How do you think he is performing now that he no longer has to focus on the leadership of the Democratic Alliance? Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (16:22.254)Well, since we last spoke on this topic, he has now become…Well, he's still the leader of the party. He stepped down. I think people should realise that. So I guess he's doing both jobs. So I don't know if it's fair to look at it this way. He claims to be focusing on agriculture and they've talked about rather a bit of a public relations debacle for the Democratic Alliance. They claim that under our minister's leadership, we finally for the first time in decades developed a new vaccine for Foot and Mouth disease. The only problem with that is that give credit where credit’s due. The African National Congress belatedly started this project in 2022 before he became minister and put the resources and funding against it. So for him to take credit for this vaccine, which by the way, Chris, last I saw the delivering of 12,000 doses; there are well over 10 million, 14, 17 million, whatever the actual number is, let's say it's 14 million cattle. They also have to get doses more than once. So 12,000. Woo, well done. Hercules, Hercules. So impressive. No, not. It's a start, but it's a start that never should have had to be put in place to begin with. They had the capability to do this. SA had a world-class vaccine institute, and they let it fall apart because of patronage and cadre enrichment. How is Minister Steenhuisen doing? Well, it's early days, I think, in this, but we know, of course, that he's been an abject failure and he's ignored the farmers and ranchers up to this point. And it's been devastating to the agricultural sector while he's off in Vietnam doing his lovely Ronald Lamola dance and negotiating for ground nuts and grapes to be shipped to Vietnam to make a few pennies. His real mission is being missed. This is going to eviscerate the farming community. You know, I don't think we're going need Expropriation without Compensation in South Africa to take land away from farmers. They're all going to go bankrupt, and the loans they owe to the banks are going to be called in, and the banks will take over the land, and they'll collude with the government, and they'll redistribute land. The agriculture will collapse in South Africa into subsistence level of the 13th century. I think that's a very real possibility of the way things are going unless a lot of money is applied and something serious happens. So how's he doing? Unfortunately, I heard the president say that he's going to be updated monthly. Monthly? On a state of disaster? You're going to be updated monthly? Really? Is it that serious? Once a month? My goodness. I don't know. If I was president, I'd want daily updates. Every morning, the minister or his representative should be in my office telling me what happened today. How many cattle have been tested yesterday? How many cattle died yesterday? Where did they die? Where are the hot spots? Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (18:45.827)What are we doing to regulate, control these things? None of this is being made available to the public, Chris. This is what the minister and the ministry should be doing. This is like the Keystone Cops. This is like watching Eddie Murphy, know, Beverly Hills Cop. This is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. A state of disaster. If you have a state of disaster, why don't you treat it like a state of disaster? You know, and he's sitting there clapping like a trained seal in Parliament when the president mentions his name. By the way, Chris, I don't know. Did you meet my white minister of agriculture? I just thought I'd share that with you. Chris Steyn (19:15.026)Chris, let us talk about the South African refugees in the United States, many of whom you are in contact with. The bad treatment some of them have received. What does or what did that entail and what is behind it? Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (19:35.184)Chris, you've asked a very apropos question. There's a story that broke this week from the Free Press written by Madeline Rowley, who I've spoken with, who's interviewed me. She works for the Free Press. And of course, they're tied to Barry Weiss and CBS News. So her story came out. And then after that, she appeared on CBS Morning Show. And it's making the rounds now. Times Live and Independent Line have both run stories about this. But they're missing the mark as usual. There is a situation here in the United States where some refugees are not receiving the services that they should be get that they're entitled to. And I've been covering this for some time, but I was reticent to cover it because some people embellish and exaggerate their circumstances or they have unrealistic expectations. I mean, Chris, let's put this in perspective. These are refugees. Now, unless they're independently wealthy and have lots of money, when they come over here, they're not going to get seven bedroom farmhouses. They're not going to be driving, you know, $50,000 bakkies. They're refugees and there's a limited amount of money that's applied for refugees, whether it's Trump or Biden or Obama, it doesn't matter. There's just a limited amount that Congress gives. So there are agencies that are hired as contractors, as vendors to deliver these services, Lutheran Church Services, Church World Service, International Rescue Committee. There are seven big ones and they get $2.6 billion to $2.9 billion a year from the US government. Yeah, it's a lot of money that we spend for refugee cash assistance, refugee medical assistance, for picking up at airports, for taking them appointments, get Social Security numbers, for helping them find accommodation, all these things, cultural integration, as well as many other services like helping them translate their Curriculum Vitaes into a resume for the American market. Many of jobs, all that plays a role there. So some of these refugees haven't been getting the service and some of it's been quite abysmal. I myself have personally intervened in cases in Austin, Texas a few months back in Modesta, California for a Coloured couple in Rochester, New York, where I went up there and drove up and met with these refugees and then went to the agency and then was treated abysmally by another agency when the word spread that I'd done a live broadcast reporting on the horrific treatment that an Afghan refugee had received. And that's an important distinction here to understand, Chris. While the South African media gleefully runs around with these stories telling how South Africans are being mistreated and the grass isn't greener, the story is how refugees have not been treated the way they're supposed to and the lack of oversight… Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (21:55.746)…in my view, from the US government and from these agencies themselves, because it's uneven. We have refugees, for instance, for Church World Service, that are in Tampa, Florida and Dallas, Texas, who had world-class treatment, amazing treatment. They have wonderful apartments. They have agents who contact them daily or every other day and make sure they're good, make sure their appointments are taken care of. And most of those people have been self-sufficient within 30 to 60 days, which is absolutely amazing when you consider they're refugees. Then we have a situation in Rochester where these people are treated abysmally. They missed out on matching grants from the state that would have doubled the amount of money they had. The Afghan I met last year, he was told that when he asked the question of his case officer, do you know where can find Halaal meat? I mean, of course in South Africa everybody knows about Halaal, but Americans, most Americans are not accustomed to that. They're familiar with kosher for the Jewish community, but not Halaal. So when he asked that question, his case officer...These supposed to be people that understand and have empathy for refugees and understand where people are coming from. And she said, why do you need that? You people eat dog. That's what the case officer said to him. So this is not a problem specific to South African refugees. It's a problem that because the South Africans speak English far better than past refugees like Congolese and Burmese and Uyghurs and also the Afghans because they speak English understand much better and they have an expectation of what's supposed to work in a functioning country, they ask questions and we're getting answers that aren't always good. Now the story that ran on CBS that Ms. Rowley wrote for the Free Press will be blown up. My experience on this, Chris, I've talked at least 800 or so of the 2,000 refugees that come to America. That's probably an accurate figure, either on WhatsApp or through messaging and also interviews I've done. Not all interviews I do appear on air, some of them are just on chatting with people privately. So those interviews and those discussions and talks with these people, I would say about 3% are experiencing this. That's an estimate. It's not scientific, but you know, of every 100, about 3, this is a problem. And it's becoming a larger problem because more more refugees are arriving in United States. So the real story here is not how South Africans are mistreated because 97% of them are getting fantastic treatment and they're off to a great start. I mean, there are refugees over here making six figure incomes already in dollars, not in rands. Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (24:11.145)There are refugees who are also struggling because they're having a hard time adapting to different culture. But that's normal. That's not unusual. And that's not South Africa specific. But the story here is not that. The real story here is that who is watching the Watchers? Who's overseeing this programme and all this money the US government is doling out? We've seen in Minneapolis how the federal government and the state government give out billions and billions of dollars to fake education centers, fake daycare centers, the Laring Center in Minneapolis, famously known now. And because of that, this story will gain more traction. And I'm fine with it gaining traction. Anytime that I as a taxpayer give money to my government and it's supposed to be using it for purpose and it isn't used in that fashion, I want accountability. And that's what's needed here, accountability. So I think it's important that you've asked that question and I explain it. Again, there are people, I mean, people have put in terrible places, cockroach infested, know, dangerous neighbourhoods, overpaying for rent, being told by agencies, well, we're done with you, 30 days out of here. That's not how it works. A lot of this stuff comes to my attention. Yesterday, I had a message from a gentleman who went to Maryland and was not getting the service that he felt he deserved. And he's correct, having listened to what he said. So he relocated himself here to Pennsylvania because he knew someone in Pennsylvania he'd worked for when he'd come to America many years ago. And so he's up here now, he's working, he's got a job, but he did most of that on his own. The upside is that there is a refugee assistance agency in Harrisburg, the state capital, that gets no money because they didn't receive his case, yet they've taken on his case pro bono. They're helping him with his stuff. They're helping with his appointments, with his services he's entitled to, which is amazing. It just shows you that most of the people who do this are fantastic, but there are, as with any programme, some bad apples out there. And it's unfortunate for those who fall under the care of bad apples, but that's the situation. And I just thank you for asking about it because it's important. The refugee story gets distorted and lied about endlessly. There's very little objectivity in reporting the story. And I like to bring objectivity to the story. There's good and there's bad, mostly good for the South Africans though. Chris Steyn (26:10.566)Thank you for explaining that. That was US intelligence analyst retired Colonel Chris Wyatt on the NdB Sunday show with me, Chris Steyn. Thank you, Chris. Colonel (Ret) Chris Wyatt (26:23.033)Well, thank you, Chris. Have a wonderful week as it comes up. Hopefully this story about the refugees, we'll see how goes. It gets more information, more air time on it. But I'm very curious to see when the SANDF be deployed to the townships. We'll be watching that story as it develops. Chris Steyn (26:39.079)Thank you.

The NdB Sunday Show: Ret.) Col Chris Wyatt - Cyril "Stalingrad Presidency", Steenhuisen’s "missed mission" - and refugee drama

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