Dunderhead or drunk? O’Sullivan’s target Edward Zuma swims naked on PowerFM

Edward Zuma, son of South African president Jacob, is one of forensic investigator Paul O’Sullivan‘s prime targets. That’s something Zuma Junior should be taking very seriously considering the ace crimefighter’s efforts have already put a seemingly invulnerable head of police (Jackie Selebi) and a criminal mastermind (Radovan Krejcir) behind bars. O’Sullivan says Zuma Junior is a kingpin in a massive network of corruption. Edward and his close friend and business partner Yusuf Kajee, own a factory in the KZN capital of Pietermaritzburg that O’Sullivan says is a major supplier of illegally sold cigarettes which cost the State billions in lost excise duty. In this bizarre live interview with the superb JJ Thabane of PowerFM, Edward Zuma exposes himself as either delusional, drunk or just a dunderhead. PowerFM listeners who called in showed him little mercy, and when O’Sullivan was brought onto the show, he dismissed the rambling Zuptoid insider as “a drunk criminal.” You be the judge. And after reaching the obvious conclusion, ask yourself how the pride of the African continent, has allowed itself to get to a place where people like Edward Zuma (and his father) have been afforded such enormous power. On the upside, the PowerFM interview leaves little doubt about the kind of person who lives inside the Zuptoid network of patronage. The more their true colours become evident, the sooner SA citizens will eject them. Hope springs. – Alec Hogg

JJ Thabane of PowerFM: President Zuma’s son joining us here on Power Perspective tonight to share his perspective about the state of the nation. What’s been going on, so many developments? He’s regular here on Power Perspective. Do you remember the last time he was here he opened the case against white monopoly capital? He briefs us, he updates us what he’s been up to.

Good evening, JJ.

Thank you so much once again for joining us. Let’s just get straight into it. You’ve listened to a little bit of what Phlahlane is saying. There seems to be constantly right, fights at the higher echelons of the police. You saw the spat between General Ntlemeza as well as the Minister Mbalula. You’ve got another fellow, this fellow who is in crime intelligence who’s been on suspension for 4-years. You’ve got the IPID head fighting with Phahlane, what is your assessment about what is going on there, as a citizen observing these things every day?

Yes, JJ, as a citizen, observing all these things would you really, really say we are on the correct path, when we have institutions of national importance up against each other, you know. You’d obviously have a problem, you know that’s one. Two – why do we have to have individuals wanting to show us their muscles in as far as how far they can go, in terms of dealing with each other in terms of… You know what I mean, JJ?

Yes, and the role of O’Sullivan, it came up a lot in Parliament. Are you nervous about O’Sullivan issuing all of these threats for all kinds of dossiers?

Oh, O’Sullivan, I think I’m one person who’s never been very privy to what O’Sullivan has been saying or to whoever he’s been talking too. However my question remains who is O’Sullivan? What does he do for the country? What good does he do for us and if so, why do we then keep him because personally, I believe O’Sullivan is the mastermind behind the downfall of the Republic of South Africa, in its Constitutional Security. You know, you understand what I’m saying?

Former Police Minister Nkosinathi Nhleko and Acting National Police Commissioner, Lieutenant-General Khomotso Phahlane.

You think so, remember the last time he actually exposed corruption?

I don’t think so, my brother. I know, I can see so.

Are you accusing him of consorting with foreign forces? 

Accusing who?

O’Sullivan, are you accusing him of collaborating with foreign forces?

Well, if you say I’m accusing him of consolidating with foreign forces, I will be wrong. He’s a foreign force himself.

Oh, I see. You don’t think what he’s raising must be dealt with on his merits? So, if he says ‘Phahlane is corrupt – he did X, he did Y…?

By what barometer do you then use to measure, to engage whatever O’Sullivan says, as compared to what a particular Madlala who is in the force that he’s saying. Why do they prefer to say what O’Sullivan is saying is better than what Madlala is saying. Why then do they agree to that?

What is your view about what the Minister must do because it looks like the Minister is also caught in the crossfire of what he found there?

No, the Minister must do one simple thing. This man must be arrested and deported to his country, which is Ireland. This man doesn’t belong to South Africa. He is here to create havoc and cause anarchy into our country.

It’s interesting you say that because you know there’s been calls, for example that the Guptas must have their citizenship revoked. Surely, we are a global player and people from all over the world can come and live with here.

I agree with you my brother.

A protest placard depicting Atul Gupta carried by two EFF members on either side of it at a Zuma Must Fall protest in Cape Town.

As long as they contribute positively.

I agree with you my brother. They must take the Guptas as well, together with O’Sullivan.


They must take the Guptas, together with O’Sullivan because they’re on the same band. Why then would you leave O’Sullivan?

All right let’s move off O’Sullivan now. The last time you were with us you opened a case against white monopoly capital. Specifically the Ruperts and you were very clear that we need to look at state capture from all angles. Now, has there been any progress at all in that regard?

Unfortunately, because of the influence that the Ruperts have, within the ruling party we cannot do anything. We cannot do nothing. As we opened the case against the Ruperts there were those senior leaders of the ANC, who were jumping. The question that I asked myself ‘why are they jumping? Do they know something?’

Are you saying they were not supportive of your case, is that what you are saying?

No, it’s not a matter of being supportive of my case. This thing is not about me. Nor is it about a particular individual. This thing is about the movement. Who is it that they are really backing here? If you are saying you are going to be opening a case against this particular person, so be it. Can you open a case against this particular individual, we will do that – we will support that but then when you change in the midst of the things then we’ll have a problem.

Tell me, in terms of… because there are a lot of people who are quite worried about this whole state capture and today or yesterday the Minister or the former Minister of Minerals spilling more beans, saying that he was fired because he didn’t comply with a certain Gupta linked interests that relate to Eskom and he accuses the Eskom Chairperson and…

First and foremost, I don’t discuss such issues with the President.


Number two, I do not know as to who he wants to appoint at what stage, and what moment he wants to appoint them, right?


Now, I would have a problem if any individual would come to me and say ‘here is an issue – what is it that we are having a problem with this particular issue?’ The issue with me, as a person, I would say arrest all of them because to me they are all criminals.

Who are you referring to?

Everybody that is involved in that conspiracy

Of the state capture?


But your father, the President, is fingered as suspect number one in state capture.

No, but my father being the President, doesn’t therefore necessarily mean he’s immune to this and that.

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So, you’re saying he must also be charged?

No, no. Can you listen to me? No, does any other person refer to the other way, yes.

Look, the state capture, the part of what you were saying the last time we understood was to say we can’t just investigate the Guptas. We’ve got to investigate everyone else involved, like the Ruperts, right?

Who is this everyone?

I’m saying like the Ruperts, it could be other people. I’m saying to you…

The State failed to investigate the Ruperts when I open the case against them. They cannot open the case against the Ruperts because the Ruperts are so powerful in this country that they are the ones that have determine who should be Minister of what? Who should be President in what stage?

So what do you make though of the allegations made by the former Minerals Minister, against Eskom?

No, the former Minerals Manager is just dreaming. He wishes things were on his side but in this case, they are not going to be on his side. He is merely and he is part of the problem. He is part of the problem, Ngoako Ramathlodi is part of the problem and we need to understand it from it that level that Ngoako is part of the problem and we cannot solve the problem with the person that is part of the problem. He is busy lying to people.

Former Minister of Mines Ngoako Ramatlhodi

Yes, so tell me then in terms of moving this forward, to get clarity on this state capture. Do you believe like Cyril Ramaphosa has said that a Commission of Enquiry on the state capture must be instituted or do you think that it’s not something that we should be spending the nations’ time on?

Certain, for most, let me clarify this. The first person who said we need a Commission of Enquiry is President Zuma.


And I think we need to support President Zuma and Cyril Ramaphosa is supporting President Zuma. That we need a Commission of Enquiry on all these matters.

Yes, so he’s going to Court to refuse that because the Public Protector said that he needs to appoint a Commissioner of Enquiry and the Chief Justice must give him a judge to appoint and he’s going to Court to oppose that. So, why do you say he’s the first one to have said we need a Commission? He’s going there to oppose it because the Public Protector said he must appoint this Commission, Mr Zuma.

No, but he’s merely exercising his Constitutional Rights, so unless you are going to say to me that he has no right to exercise his Constitutional Right. Otherwise…

You don’t think he’s delaying tactics, you should get on with the Commission of Enquiry?

Delaying tactics fall behind us right now. What is important are you exercising your Constitutional Right or are you not? In this case Mr Zuma is exercising his Constitutional Right and I think if we claim to be constitutionally abiding citizens, we need to respect that. We need not to be having any problem.

So, are you saying therefore, before I take some calls for you, are you saying that the issue of state capture is an urgent matter that should be attend to as a nation, so that we can get clarity because there are many allegations every day? That are causing suspicions across the movement, across the country. Is it your view that we should get on with that Commission or not?

My personal view – I wish we could allow the President to institute a Commission of Enquiry into all these matters, so that we get these things to be clarified because there are many misgivings. There are many misconceptions, people telling this and that. So for us to be given clarity can we be respected, by the President who can institute a Commission of Enquiry, so that all these things can be clarified, so that everybody can keep quiet.

Yes okay, so all right, that’s quite interesting there. Are you worried that so many people in the ANC, which is your movement and I understand you are a member of even a branch there in Nkandla, where you’ve just recently participated and lost elections. But are you worried that so many people in the ANC want the President to quit? I mean the veterans, like your Cheryl Carolus of this world. You’ve got Foundations like the Kathy Foundation, the Mandela Foundation, wanting the President to go. Do you think it’s time he probably considered whether indeed he should step-aside for the sake of the unity of the ANC?

The unity of the ANC doesn’t depend on certain individuals (1). (2) The unity of the ANC doesn’t depend on people that are very bitter with the current leadership of the ANC. (3) The unity of the ANC does not depend on people that seek popularity in as far as their particular positions are concerned. All we’re saying is we can comrade, be disciplined enough to respect the culture of the ANC. In comrade be respectful enough to respect the dictates of the ANC. We can never be told as to how we need to run this particular organisation or this particular movement. At the expense of us selling out our sell point on a particular view.

So, you are saying that you do not see anything in the… The President has been now in charge of the ANC for almost a decade and in that period, we’ve had splits, at least two splits or splinters. So, Cope left straight after he was elected. EFF and now the Unions themselves split. Aren’t you worried that he’s presided over the fracturing of the ANC?

No, I would be worried. Rather I would be saying he or she has presided over an ANC, which has vigorously taught people as to how to be vocal in terms of engaging with issues within the ANC.

So, you don’t think that there’s anything that can be said about the fact that under his leadership ANC is not as united as he found it?

In as much as you want me to push me to say that. I will never agree to that but all I can say is he has put the ANC to be more engaging and more democratic more than it was before because people before could not speak the way they are speaking today. They could not express themselves the way they are expressing themselves today. Now, the question I would remain with is who has made the ANC democratic? Is it Zuma or is it those whoever, those people that you want to mention because I can see you want to mention a particular sentiment.

Yes, I’m saying I’m surprised that you don’t think that there’s anything in a sense wrong that he has done, to fracture the ANC. Under his leadership the ANC has even lost

There is something wrong that he has done.

Which is what?

There is something that is wrong that he has done.

Yes, I’m saying give me an example of something wrong that he has done then.

Oh, the something that is wrong that he has done as a leader of the organisation?


He has not been able to tell us as members of the ANC, like we’ve been told before, and we are waiting to be told by him. He’s not been able to tell us to say ‘you’ve been doing wrong – you’ve been doing right.’

South African President Jacob Zuma

I can’t say I understand, so you are saying he is not being critical to the members of the ANC?

No, no I’m not saying he’s not being critical to the members of the ANC. You are saying that. I am saying he has not been able to engage us and we are saying we are here to be engaged and we expect his engagement because we trust his engagement. To be the very correct engagement in leading the ANC forward.

Are you worried at all about him being associated with a lot of scandals in his term of office, as the President of the country and the ANC?

Who has not been associated with scandals, Jay?

No, we are talking about your President now. I’m saying…

No, but you also answer me, who has not been?

No, there’s a lot of people who have been, there’s thousands and millions of South Africans.

Like who?

Who are not involved in scandals.

Like who?

No, many. It’s not for me to…

Then give me their names.

No, it’s not for me to give you their names. I’m saying…

Exactly, so…

So, are you saying everybody is scandalised, is that your answer?

You need to give me their names.

No, don’t give me their names. I’m saying are you worried that President Zuma is associated with scandals so many times? 

President Zuma is not associated with any scandals whatsoever. President Zuma is associated with the unification of the African National Congress.

Let’s take some calls for you there. Thank you for answering those questions. Anele in Cape Town, good evening to you.

Hi, JJ, how are you?

I’m all right, how are you Anele?

I’m good thanks JJ. Hey, I want to speak to this gentleman. In fact I’m not going to ask questions as such. I want to comment.

Please go ahead, Anele.

Part of why the ANC has found itself where it is today it is on the basis of the fact that we have lost morality to the highest course. I’ll make a typical example of that man, I mean Edward. Not long ago, I think a few years ago, 3 – 4 years ago, that man, Edward, was facing allegations of rape in the University of Zululand and it just tells you that anything that is aligned within the Zuma family or within the surname Zuma, seems to have little to no morality at all. If you recall when President Zuma was elected the State President, at some stage there were allegations of him having raped an innocent woman. And those are the challenges faced by the ANC anyway. That is why you find Duduzane Zuma now speaking, I think he is even intoxicated if you can hear and listen to him as closely as you can. That is why you find a lot of comrades not being able to sit down and address issues soberly so, because morality within comrades has been lost. Therefore, people like today, Edward Zuma, must never be taken serious in our movement. These are the people who are architects of what has been happening in the ANC for many years. In fact, they benefitted out of the corruption that has taken place under the leadership of his own father because he’s the beneficiary of all this corruption that has taken place, within the ANC. Looting the ANC and looting the country as well. So, that is why last week or two weeks ago he was rejected in his own branch in Nkandla because there is no morality within and there’s a huge sense of arrogance of not wanting to engage and listen. That is why of all the questions you have asked him now, he has not been able to put content and proper political understanding because him being part of the ANC is just a matter of him benefiting out of all, what has been looted out of the ANC and the corruption and the proceeds of corruption within Government. So, I think for me to have Edward Zuma right now, in the studio, not being able to address simple questions about issues affecting the ANC and issues affecting Government is a sign. In itself is a sign that the generation that has been left behind the current leadership of the ANC, led by comrade Jacob Zuma has no morals at all. In fact, they lack – we lack a lot of political understanding and we seem to have not been trained properly to address issues in Government and in the ANC. So, that is all I want to share.

All right, let’s just… Mr Zuma, do you want to respond to Anele briefly there?

Yes, I do.

Please go ahead.

Okay. With due respect, with respect to comrade what’s his name?

Anele, from Cape Town.

How can you not remember my name?

No, I think Anele suffers from a particular condition. Hence, I think Anele, in responding not to you direct but indirectly, in responding to the people who posed the question. You seem to have a problem or a disease of fearing engagement and in this engagement, you reduce the engagement into a particular family. The fact that Edward Zuma so happens to be President Zuma’s relative or son or nephew, or whatever you might want to call him. To me, to us, it’s immaterial. The fact of the matter is, stick to the debate. What are you saying?

Okay, Anele. I’ll give you a chance to respond. Let Mr. Zuma respond.

Please. You’ve not said anything. You have been busy lashing out that there was a brand conference that did not accede to Edward Zuma’s liking. President Zuma was accused of rape etcetera. He seems to be talking of many thing that he himself will forget if I were to ask him in the next few minutes.

Okay. Anele, do you want to come in there?

Yes. You see, JJ, Edward came out earlier this year and he said, “He’s going to defend his father in his capacity as his father’s son – not knowing exactly and understanding that his father is the President of this country and as such, people have a prerogative within themselves to critique the President. If I can recall, the ANC veteran comrade Mathews Phosa wrote an article and…..

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Okay, I’ll give you a chance just now, Mr. Zuma. Anele, round it off, please.

Can you also allow me?

Yes, I’ll allow you, Edward.

He wrote an article. This one. This moron there on radio (Edward Zuma). He went running writing a contradicting article insulting a stalwart, a veteran leader of the ANC. There are no morals in Edward Zuma. There are no morals within anything that is aligned with the Zuma family. As such, I will continue to say that the person you have there is not fit, especially today, he does not appear fit enough to respond with content on any issues that we’re going to discuss here today.

Alright, let’s leave it there. Anele, thank you so much there for talking to us. Mr. Zuma, last buy back for Anele before I let him go?

If you prevent Anele from further engaging, I will challenge you to allow him to further engage because he is speaking fallacies.


He, himself, knows that and it is a pity that he is under this disease that you call…

What is this disease that you’re always talking about?

This disease that you call ‘you either do this or you do not get this’… For him, I understand where he’s coming from. I’m not going to blame him. I understand where he’s coming from but the fact of the matter…the truth remains that we are not going to be misled. We are not going to be told an untruth. We are not going to be told what is not correct by our so-called leadership. All I’m saying as Edward Zuma, is that if you want to crucify Jacob Zuma, crucify Jacob Zuma based on merit. Don’t crucify Jacob Zuma based on something you heard in whatever location that I’m not going to mention.

Let me close JJ.

The PEC in Gauteng have their likings on – they have a problem and they cannot engage with us in debate. What I’m saying is the position is this: if my position is not correct, it is the right of the comrade to engage me and not fight with me.

Alright, let me give Anele a chance to say goodbye. Anele, your last byte, please.

No, Anele, does not want to say goodbye because of his brutality in this debates.

All right, Mr Zuma, let me give Anele to go, I need to take other callers now. Anele, briefly please?

ANC veteran Mathews Phosa

Yes, I just want to close up, JJ, I want to close up with that article, Damascus Moment by Mathews Phosa. That article raised important issues that were never personal on anyone, but as what Zuma now is saying, we must not be personal, he came in in his own capacity, personal as he his and attacked Comrade Mathews Phosa and I’m hoping that he is sober enough to remember what he wrote a few months ago. He came and attacked and he was personal. Hence, I’m saying to you now, JJ, what we seem to have lost in the ANC, I’m speaking myself as a member of the ANC, what we seem to have lost is morality and it has resulted in us not being able to sit down and engage and speak to each other.

Instead, what we do, we exchange arrogance, like Edward is doing now on studio. All I’m saying, I hope Edward will be sober enough tomorrow morning and remember everything he is going to say now on radio because it will count against him, it will count against his family and anything that is aligned with the Zuma family.

All right, let’s leave in there, Anele, in Cape Town. We’re going to take some more callers there for Mr Edward Zuma, Mr Paul O’Sullivan, good evening to you, Paul.

Oh, good evening and good evening to all the listeners.

Wise guy.

Good evening, Paul, how are you Paul, how are things?

No, I’m good thanks, how are you?

All right, any remark on what you’ve heard, the little bit of what we have played of what General Phahlane said of you in Parliament, that you seem to be a big factor in IPID, what is your perspective there?

Yes, I watched the three hours or two and a half hours of whatever it was, I watched it online and frankly, it’s a disgrace that this man can get up into Parliament and lie the way that he lies and he should be prosecuted for that. It’s an offence to lie to Parliament like that. Now, the bottom line is, Parliament has failed at its duty to make him account for his conduct and his lies that I’ve take over IPID is just that. I mean, does he think that I have the authority and the power to take over an organisation such as IPID?

Paul O’Sullivan

So, are you saying, because I think the bone of contention there, was that he was questioning your close relationship with Ipid in that he feels that Ipid in a sense is dancing to your tune. I mean, I’m paraphrasing him really.

Yes, of course, I understand that you’re just repeating what he said, but he lied to Parliament and Parliament needs to hold him accountable. The bottom line is that hundreds of thousands of South Africans every year, are victim to crime, while this man has got bodyguards all around him and is living in a luxury house that was paid for out of the proceeds of crime and he needs to be held accountable to that and I am absolutely certain that the wheels of justice will turn and he will be held accountable.

SAPS PoliceWhy do you think the Minister has not suspended him yet, I mean the Minister has been in office for over a month, I’m sure he has files to spare about the accusations? Are we going to go back to a situation where the police top brass protect each other”

Well, that certainly seems to be the case, if one looks at what’s been going on. The senior members that have run away from IPID rather than face the music for their conduct over the last 18 months, were all given cushy jobs as major generals in the police. Somebody needs to explain that and the man that gave the most jobs is Phahlane. Now he is under investigation, so what he is trying to do is secure his future by neutralising IPID and it’s not going to succeed. It’s a constitutional body, it’s set up in terms of an act and it’s run by, in my opinion, noble people and they need to be left to get on with the job and his conduct will all come out one day and it will cause him to be shamed.

Okay, Mr Edward Zuma, who is my guest tonight, earlier on, saying, you know questioning your involvement in these things, questioning your track record and so on, is it including saying that you shouldn’t be allowed to operate in South Africa?

Well, Edward Zuma obviously doesn’t know the law. I’m a citizen of South Africa and what Edward Zuma should rather do, is explain his involvement with people like of Yusuf Kajee and others and explain why he has bank accounts in foreign countries with money that is obtained through ill-gotten methods. Now, I don’t want to go into that. That’s another story. But for him, you know there’s a saying that people, who live in glass houses, shouldn’t throw stones. Edward Zuma has more explaining to do than I have.

Let’s go into that, stop lying to the public.

Sorry Paul, let me bring in Mr Zuma there. Don’t go, please. Edward?

Yes, JJ that guy there must stop lying. He is a roach of note. He has been manipulating the security system of this country for years. He’s been speaking, right now he just mentioned Edward Zuma and Yusuf Kajee, what has he got on that? He must tell the country and if he does not tell the country, he must face the music. He has been lying; he has been paid money by the people that he is sitting next to. Right now, as we speak as they were sitting in such restaurants in Johannesburg.

He is a liar, he is a schemer. I don’t know what name I could give him. He is no person that one could trust. Now, are we saying we are lending our security aspirators of this country to people like Paul O’Sullivan – that’s what he is called, if I’m not mistaken? We’re not. The argument that I’m having is, he has tried to implicate me for so many years and he has failed and he will continue to fail. He has tried to link me with people like Yusuf Kajee. Yusuf Kajee remains my friend and I’m not going to deny that. He should prove that I am….

What is your business with him, are you in business with him?

He should be the one that is telling us of his corrupt relationship with Robert McBride. Because they have a very corrupt relationship as we speak. There are many instances that we can count on him. He is Irish; he must go back to Ireland. We don’t need him in South Africa. He is destabilising the security of this country and he is a foreign force, he is a foreign agent, we don’t need people like him. So, whatever explanation he gives, whatever elaboration he wants to explain further, the fact remains that he is a foreign agent that is against our country.

Robert McBride

Okay, let me get him to respond then, Paul?

Well, I learnt a long time ago, two things. First of all, never argue with somebody that’s drunk. And secondly, never to argue with a criminal.

Oh, thank you, that’s an insult.

I’m not going to allow myself to lower to that man’s level. The bottom line is, you know, you phoned me to speak to me about IPID and now you’re letting this person, who needs to explain why he’s living he’s living as a result of relationship with criminals.

I never phoned you; don’t even know your number.

Okay, I’m going to discontinue this conversation, because I’m not going to have a public argument with a drunken criminal.

I’ve never phoned you –

All right, Edward.

Can you tell this country right now on air and on public, can you prove to them that I phoned you? I’ve never phoned you, can you prove now that I phoned you, can you prove that? What’s my number?

I was phoned by PowerFM and I didn’t get phoned to trade blows with a drunken criminal.

Oh, PowerFM, now he’s changing the tune, who is the liar here? Let us not be misled by foreign agents……

All right, I’m going to discontinue this call now because I don’t argue with drunken criminals. Good night to your listeners JJ.

Let’s leave it there, Edward?

He is selling this country.

All right, Edward, let’s leave it there, let’s take other calls. That was getting heated there. Mokone in Pretoria, good evening.

Good evening JJ how are you?

I’m all right, how are you?

Even if you are not close to the person, at least it can dictate that there is something wrong here. There is a problem, your guest there has a very serious problem. Now, he accused, he opened a case against the white monopoly capital, which I want to ask him, what is white monopoly capital? And then the policing; they do what you call ‘investigation’, if he doesn’t know. If you open a case, there must be investigation because you are not proven guilty until the court proves you to say you are guilty and then what were the charges there that he opened? What is white monopoly capital according to Mr President’s son?

Yes, all right, so you want him to elaborate on the case he opened?

Yes and then again, he was speaking about people showing muscle. His father is showing muscles by not respecting the constitution of this country. He violated the constitution of the country and then he is showing muscles by not even doing all the things that were recommended too.

All right, let’s get him to respond. So, basically, you want to understand clarity of his case against white monopoly capital, Mr Zuma?


Mr Mokone wants to understand your case against white monopoly capital that you opened.

No, it’s simple. I’m opening a case against people like this so-called Mr O’Sullivan who is a roach and who does not deserve to be a South African. He is not a South African. He deserves to be kicked out, so I’m opening a case against people like that who are here in the country, who wants to milk what black people are owning, but only he is milking it on behalf of what? Of the white monopoly capital that is sitting there in London


Yes, Mokone?

Mr Zuma, the relevant institution to deal with the issues of the citizenship, are you part of the institution?

Am I a part of the institution?

Are you part of the institution that is mandated to deal with the citizenships in this country?

No, I’m not part of an institution, I’m raising an issue.

I’m Mokone, don’t take us for granted, man. Don’t take chances here. There is Home Affairs that is responsible for those things.

I am raising these issues as an individual citizen.

Are you a court of this country, are you the one that, are you in the court, are you Home Affairs, are you a police officer, since you want to prosecute?

I am an ordinary citizen of the country.

Yes, give the law the chance. Why can’t you give the law a chance? Why can’t you go to the public protector and go and face it, now there is the allegation with the fact because if I can ask you, currently, you are saying Mr Paul O’Sullivan is not a citizen, do you have the proof?

I do have the proof.

Can you go to court to prove that Mr Paul O’Sullivan is not a citizen of this country?

O’Sullivan cannot be arrested for 48 hours because he’s a foreign agent, with four foreign agents in this country. He has to be reported to, or he has to be informed as to why he should be arrested within 48 hours. Don’t you see that’s a foreign agent?

Who must?

All right, let’s –

You don’t have even a –

Don’t you see that he is a foreign agent?

Yes, we’re going to have to –

Well, you don’t have those powers, you must go –

If you don’t see that he’s a foreign agent, then there is a problem with yourself.

The fact that you are the President’s son, doesn’t give you the powers to dictate who must do what.

No, being the President’s son is immaterial in all these matters.

No, but you are using those things that, because of –

All right, gentlemen.

The end of the day.

That’s because of your father –

Sorry gentlemen, we’re going to have to leave it here.

No, at the present time remains a citizen of the country at the end of the day.

No, but you don’t have those powers to say, you are not Home Affairs Uwena.

In as much as I do not have those powers, but –

Yes, but you are not even court of –

I have the powers that you have now.

All right, gentlemen, we’re going to have to leave it there.

Are you a court or….

I’m sorry, Mokone.

I have the right to air my views.

Yes, wait for the law to take its own course, like your father today in there.

Mokone, let’s leave it there.

No, that’s good –

All right, I’m going to have to drop you Mokone, thank you Mokone.

I know that you’re there and as my guess it is hurting you right now.

Mr Zuma, it’s –

Thank you, they say it’s good is hurting you right now.

It’s all right. Let’s take another caller now, Lebo, Ous Lebo, good evening.

Good evening, JJ, how are you?

Fine, how are you?

All right, thank you, JJ, you know, I’m very puzzled man, about this whole issue around Paul O’Sullivan, okay and I’ve been on your line, on a couple of occasions around Paul O’Sullivan. I’ve been on the line, I think with Nhleko, if I’m not mistaken and what puzzles me is, there’s a lot of accusations around the guy, okay, a whole lot of accusations and Paul O’Sullivan is a private investigator, if I’m not mistaken.

Yes, he’s a forensic investigator.

Yes and he investigates all of these high profile people. I might be very naïve and I might be very ignorant, but my take is, if they had anything on this guy, given the profile of cases that he handles, okay, he’d generally be in jail now, or he’d be killed or something by our government. They have got nothing on him and Paul O’Sullivan is delivering a service to this country that we are as black people are scared to deliver. We probably don’t even have the resources to deliver. He’s done a lot for this country.

The Zapiro cartoon which has the paper tigers apoplectic with self-indignant rage. For more Zapiro magic, click here.

He’s exposed a lot of corruption, he’s exposed a lot of wrongdoing, he’s exposed a lot of stories. This Zuma boy is now accusing O’Sullivan of milking the country. What is his father doing, what is this boy’s claim to fame, where does he get the money from, what does he do for a living? He calls Paul O’Sullivan a foreign agent, who is milking the country dry, what is his father doing? The father is doing the very same thing that he’s accusing Paul O’Sullivan of doing. Who’s Edward Zuma? For some reason you guys also give him a platform. Who is he, who’s Edward Zuma?

All right, let’s leave it there Ous Lebo.

What value is he adding to this country?

Mr Zuma?

I’m listening.

You can engage with Ous Lebo.

Yes, my Ous Lebo.

Hello, Baba.

How are you Ous Lebo?

I’m very well, how are you?

Okay, Ous Lebo. Ous Lebo?


This is like this.

Yes, tell me.

We are not going to realise as to who our enemies are until we sit with them. I’m meaning this about what I’m saying. There will –

You see, I’ve been avoiding. This is on social media, this is everywhere. Everyone is now saying you are very, very intoxicated. I’m avoiding saying that you are intoxicated, but now you are forcing me to say you are intoxicated.

Okay, I see your –

Can we have a proper conversation?

Okay, Ous Lebo.

I thought it has got something to do with your father.

Ous Lebo, give Mr Zuma a chance to respond to you.

All right.

Ous Lebo?

Yes, Baba.

We need to – let’s agree with everybody. It’s their view and they have every right.

I don’t share their view, I think you are very sober, but can we have a sober conversation?

Yes, Ous Lebo, they have every right to have that particular view.

Answer my questions; let’s forget about other people’s views.

Okay, a question needs to premise itself from somewhere.


Hence I’m saying, if this is what they are saying, it is fine, it is correct, we are -?

I said, let’s move away from what people are saying, answer my questions on Paul O’Sullivan, how is he the enemy?

All right Ous Lebo, wait a bit for him to answer. 

This is how – Paul O’Sullivan is the enemy, if you want me to tell you. Paul O’Sullivan is the enemy in one. Number one, Paul O’Sullivan is not South African, he’s Irish, number two, he has dual citizenship or not even dual.

A lot of white people in this country have dual citizenship Aboetie.

Oh, well it is unfortunate that he –

He’s a South African, he has dual citizenship, which means he’s an Irish and he’s a South African. We have lots of those. I live with someone like that in my house.

All right, Ous Lebo, unfortunately, I’ve run out of time. I have to ask Mr Zuma to give a last response and I’ll let you go. Mr Zuma, last response?

It is unfortunate that we allow white people to have dual citizenship when we do not allow our fellow African brothers –

They are dealing wrongdoing in this country –

Lebo, wait –

And your father is doing a lot of things wrong, Mr Zuma.

Yes, there may be [cross talk 0:50:20.2] –

That’s all the time I have for this now.


Yes, Mr Zuma?

Am I being protected?

You are protected. Please give me your last response to Lebo.

We allow whites to have dual citizenship and we do not question, but when a black person has dual citizenship, we begin to question and ask who the hell this person is. Then, that’s where the problem begins. The issue is at hand, why is then them, why not us?

All right, I have to leave it there; I have to take that –

Answer me the question in closing –

Let me just –

They will be fooled by Paul O’Sullivan, but Paul O’Sullivan is an agent of the CIA, he is an agent of the MI5, he is not South African.

All right.

He does not have any interest about South Africans because he has his family safe in Europe. He has no family in South Africa.

All right, let’s leave it there, Mr Zuma. For your contribution, thank you so much for talking to us tonight. I appreciate your time.

Thank you, JJ.

All right, thank you so much. That’s Edward Zuma there, the President’s son. Ooh okay, we didn’t bargain for that hey?

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