The Lions tour of New Zealand kicks off this weekend with what looks like the most winnable game of the 10. But our expert, World Cup winner and former Springbok captain Bob Skinstad, reminds us there is no such thing as an easy game in NZ. Adding to the spice, the Lions face a very eager No. 10 in their coach Warren Gatland’s talented son. Also, the young Kiwis will be keen to take full advantage of jet-lagged tourists who have only been in NZ for a few days and are going into the match with a collection of combinations which might need time to click. Skinstad tells us what to look out for in the tactics, earmarks the players to watch and shares what will be going through Lions coach Gatland and captain Sam Warburton’s minds. The articulate Skinstad provides a level of insight that turns the contest into a fascinating occasion, for those rooting for the Lions, Kiwis and especially the neutrals. – Alec Hogg
Well, it’s the first game of the Lions 2017 Tour over the weekend. Bob Skinstad, tell us about how they’ve travelled so far.
Well, it’s been a great start for the Lions. I think we all anticipated getting to New Zealand and this big welcome, and nobody was disappointed. It was absolutely fantastic, traditional hakas, traditional greetings. I was really pleased and impressed by the Lions who have been doing some chorister work in the background. They’ve all done national anthems from the different participating nations and they sang a beautiful rendition of the Welsh Calon Lân in response to a multi-welcome haka at the airport. All of the newspapers and the journalists were delighted by this big show of rugby spirit between the two countries. It’s started well, they got there and in a very difficult environment because they only have three days before their first match. They arrived positive, upbeat and got ready to train almost straight away.
Bob, just an aside, you’ve obviously gone through that process of learning national anthems with people who perhaps hadn’t sung it before. How do you actually get everybody together? Do you have a big whiteboard with the words and explain to them how to learn it?
Very much so, it’s a little bit like being back at school, you know. The words on the whiteboard – or the projector if you want – and different players have to sing different parts to make sure that the tonality is right and that you’re not singing off key or off colour. We had the great privilege, as the Springboks, we were taught by the girl who helped Nelson Mandela. She used to go to all the national teams and teach it. Obviously, Nkosi Sikelel is quite a complex song in itself, with a number of different languages etc., but the building of our understanding of that song was really well managed and I think these guys have done the same. They have a team committee and they said, “We’re going to commit to five or six songs that this team sings and we’re going to know them off by heart”. So, it was a great example of working together from early on.
Where exactly are they now in New Zealand, what part of the country?
They’re playing against a New Zealand Barbarians team, but they’re playing under the town of Whangarei and it’s one of those ones in New Zealand, it’s a traditional name of a city and it’s a ‘wh’ sound, which is actually pronounced with an ‘f’ sound. It’s the northernmost city in New Zealand. It’s the biggest, last city before the towns of the North, it’s the capital of the Northland region and it’s on its way to one of my most beautiful parts, north of Auckland, North New Zealand, you know, two very different coastlines, only 60, 80 and then down to sort of 20 and 10 miles apart because it’s a long strip up towards the top of New Zealand. I would say it’s about an hour and a half to two hours’ drive north of Auckland.
Obviously it’s sheep country if you have a look at the badge that the New Zealand Barbarians wear.
Well, no actually the Barbarians play all over New Zealand which is sheep country. There are more sheep than people in New Zealand, but that part of the world is on the way up to some of the citrus farms, there’s a big coastal element to it. It’s a huge harbour. In fact, the airport that you fly in over the harbour, it’s a bit of a hairy approach, a bit like Wellington. It’s quite flat around the coastal areas, but you still have to get there over the sea and it’s a bit windy and difficult, so in some of the small planes of Air New Zealand, you take your hat off to how good the local pilots are.
What about the team, the New Zealand Barbarians themselves, do they draw on players who’ve gone on to greatness or those who’ve had it?
It’s actually a great story. The New Zealand Barbarians started all the way back in 1937 and were obviously based on the loose idea of the international Barbarians, so a rugby playing team with different players from different parts of the world and/or especially, domestically different parts of your country and this is very much the same. This New Zealand Barbarians outfit have had some really famous players playing for them. The Jonah Lomu’s of the world and Christian Cullen’s and anybody would be delighted to have represent them, have all played for New Zealand Barbarians. These guys are, I’d say, probably mixed up of players who’ve played for All Black Sevens, New Zealand Under 20s, a couple of guys who might be really high performing players in the domestic competition in New Zealand, but not necessarily played for the All Black yet. They’re an almost up and coming team.
There’s a guy there called Bryn Gatland, is he any relation?
He is the son of, Bryn Gatland is Warren Gatland’s son and it was fantastic, I was doing some research last night. He’s recently come out in an interview saying he absolutely wants the New Zealand Barbarians to knock over the Lions but he still wants his dad to do well and for the Lions to beat the All Blacks, so he’s taken a bit of flak from his mates, but yes, he’ll be in the ten position and he’s a young player. He’s obviously upwardly ambitious but has been selected in this on his own merit, certainly nothing to do with dad being coach of the opposition.
It is unusual, isn’t it that you have a Lions team being coached by a former All Black, who presumably would have some good insights here.
Oh, he’d have some incredible insights. Remember Sir Graham Henry also coached the Lions and if you think about the history of where the Lions tour, they really need insights. Obviously, Sir Ian McGeechan is the most decorated Lions coach and he’s done well all over the world, but Warren Gatland, one of the first things he did was, he said, “I need to collaborate and work with people who have been successful in this role before”. Gatland obviously was successful four years ago in Australia and used very big influences from the players and the coaches who’ve been around the world, but also who’ve coached domestically in the UK and it makes a big difference, I think, to be an open coach in this role, definitely.
How strong a team are they going to be meeting, the Lions, apart from Gatland’s own son, in the New Zealand Barbarians?
Well, you see what happens with the Barbarians is, they’ve named a squad, but not necessarily a starting team yet because there are quite a few super rugby players who have commitments and actually recently a couple of those players fell out, because of some injuries in super rugby. Johnny Fa’auli has gone to the Chiefs, Quinten Strange to the Crusaders, Mitch Brown to the Chiefs, Hame Faiva has gone to the Blues. So, you can imagine that these are the guys who they would have said, “Those are our frontline players, but they’ve brought in quite a few young players Under 20 representatives Stan Vaka, who’s played for the All Black Sevens, New Zealand Under 20s…Andrew Makalio from Tasman.
These are all guys who, locally they’d be known as guys with a chance, with a good future. Think of it in South African terms or English terms as an England A-type representation, so you’ve definitely had a couple of good games for your county or your province. You’re probably not a starting guy in the All Black trials yet, but you’re there and thereabouts. That’s the kind of team they’re going to be playing in and that’s one of the reasons why I think it’s a great tour starter. The Lions have picked an immensely strong team to take on these guys and I think they’re affording them the respect that they deserve.
Is it the strongest team that the Lions could put out?
I would say it’s one of the strongest teams that they could put out. There are a couple of murmurs about some injuries that are still being treated and looked after. I think Warren Gatland’s been very smart. If we just go through the team that he’s picked, they’ve stayed with a combination-focused idea, so Joe Marler and Kyle Sinckler are the two props and they’ve propped together for England. Rory Best is the hooker, Ian Henderson is the main jumping lock, and they’ve done exactly that role for Ireland. Then you have the whole back row, Sam Warburton, Ross Moriarty and Toby Faletau are the Welsh back row with their friend, Justin Tipuric, who’s been in their sort of back three/four for Wales is on the bench. Greig Laidlaw for me is a great selection. He was a late inclusion.
Tom and Ben Youngs went through a very difficult time with the family and because of that, we’re missing out on the tour, so Laidlaw has replaced them at nine and then Johnny Sexton is an outstanding ten for Ireland, but it’s a great opportunity for him to showcase his skills. He’s in a ten on ten battle with Owen Farrell for that starting position, but Owen Farrell sits on the bench. So, there’s a lot going on. They also have the two English centres, Ben Te’o and Jamie Joseph and then they’ve put Anthony Watson, who’s played outside centre and on the wing, so very combination focused, very smart selections I think and what I love is Sam Warburton just saying, “I don’t care who we play, where we are or how I’m feeling, I am starting the first match of the tour”. So, you can imagine, I mean that’s goosebumps stuff for these players.
It’s a lot of combinations that they’ve put together here. Perhaps we’ll even see some of them also playing in the mid-week game that comes up.
Yes absolutely, remember how many games that these guys have, it’s three-days breaks so many of the senior players have been saying, “Well, don’t forget, the thing is, once you get going, you’re just on the rollercoaster. You’re recovering from one game, travelling, getting to the next, and playing again. Many of the players will play two or three mid-week games and then all the tests and then the reverse will be true for some of the other guys who will play all of the mid-week games and maybe be on the bench for some of the tests.
So, I think what we’ll definitely see is this is a team that they’re definitely setting their stall out. They’re going to have some players that they’re comfortable are good enough to play on the test matches already. I’m sure Gatland will have a shadow team in his head, but this will be a test for many of these players to see the standard that they can play. Obviously, against the New Zealand teams, but also how they can play with and amongst themselves.
So, who should we be looking out for in the Lion’s team that takes the field on Saturday?
I think Stuart Hogg, the Scottish fullback definitely has to really cement a place now in one of these starting line-ups if he wants to be a test match fullback, because that’s one of the questions, who’s going to be the test match fullback, are they going to go with Leigh Halfpenny, who they know what they have or are they going to look at a guy like Stuart Hogg and then Tommy Seymour is the Scottish wing, so that’s the case for two of them. I think we’ll see some big games from them, but I’m really excited about the lock pairing, Alun Wyn Jones and Iain Henderson and then that loose trio. I think if you need to beat New Zealand, you have to beat them with their loose forwards.
You have to have more contributions than the loose forwards from New Zealand, which is always difficult because they have incredible talent in that space. I think we’re going to see Sam Warburton and Toby Faletau, who was so successful in the Australian test series really pushing for starting places, alongside Ross Moriarty who was Man of the Match against the Springboks at the end of the year, so he really wants to show that on an international stage, he can be a quality player.
We don’t often see the Lions winning by huge margins, but is that something that could happen here?
Yes, my gut feel is that the Lions are going to be way too strong for this New Zealand Barbarians team, but I think that the Lions have had a long trip over there, it’s new combinations etc., so they might start slowly and build a score. If they do that, there’s going to be some surprise packages from the provincial Barbarians, which you know, they might get some tries against them, depending on how much time they’ve been able to play together. I think the Lions should be very strong and well tested to start, but then should run away with it and I’m not talking a telephone number in terms of score, but I think the Lions should be far too strong.
Would the spread be better then if they were given 20 points for instance, take that as a go-along on it, expecting more than 20 points?
Yes, I think you would say that, depending on conditions. Remember it’s an evening game as well and the ball might be slippery, the conditions underfoot, I’d have to have a look around there, but I would say long on 15 points would be a sensible bet.
It will be an exciting game to watch.
Oh, I can’t wait. I’m going to wake up early and get ready for it. I think the most important thing about this is that it’s the start of the tour, it’s the setting out of the stall, it’s how the lines begin, and Warren Gatland has said, we mean to begin, as we want to end.
So, from his perspective and you know what goes through the heads of the coaches and Warburton, the Captain, the coach and the captain, when they meet afterwards, what would be their ideal discussion to have at that point?
I think after this game, Alec, the ideal discussion would be, “Wow, we’re very lucky to get away with no injuries and I’m really pleased that the combinations started to gel by the second half”. I think you have to build on the little wins and for me it will be, can Laidlaw and Sexton work together as a pairing, did Ben Te’o and Jamie Joseph feed Tommy Seymour on the wing, did Stuart Hogg cut the line at the right time, did he have an opportunity to counter attack because his wings got back for him, did the loose forwards work with the second rowers to do the extra work so that the ball carriers, Karl Sinckler and Joe Marler and Toby Faletau could carry ball in space, all of those are the little questions and I think sort of summed together, if you want, they become the song. I think that’s the conversation that Warburton and Gatland would want to have. We’ve gotten away with very little injuries and we’ve started to gel together.
The injuries are a big issue. Just to close off with, when we see top teams in the off-season, football teams, soccer teams playing, they cannot go in for the tackle etc., it’s not that easy in rugby though. You can’t go into a game like this thinking, “Well, I’m going to hold back a little in case I get injured”.
No, I’m afraid not. I think no quarter will be given here and to be fair to the Lions, none will be asked because I think they all understand the physical nature of this journey and they understand that you’ve got to build little heroes in your team, you’ve got to build people who are legends amongst their own teammates before they make an impact internationally and that’s done by putting in the hard yards from the very beginnings. I think all of these players are ready to go. Sam Warburton clearly is one of the biggest worries for Gatland. He’s come off the back of an injury and he’s integral to the success of the Lions because he’s such a team man and he’s a really highly rated ball fetcher and in New Zealand you have to fight this battle against the loose forwards. Injury wise, he’ll have to go hell for leather from the very beginning.
Bob Skinstad, World Cup winner, former Springbok Captain, giving us his unique insights into the Lions Tour of New Zealand 2017.
