ActionSA Leader Herman Mashaba has the country talking as the residents of the capital Tshwane are anxiously awaiting his call on a possible coalition with the African National Congress (ANC) – after it entered into a working relationship with the ANC in Joburg, and is eyeing a similar deal in Ekurhuleni next. Speaking to BizNews from New York, Mashaba describes how – when he became aware of the Democratic Alliance (DA) trying to get the ANC to work with it in Tshwane, and remove ActionSA, he realised he was dealing with “very dangerous people”. On the other hand, he says the ANC is committed to the two parties holding each other accountable. “I know I’m dealing with a DA that will stab me without any doubt. So I’ve got to protect myself. Let me try other options available to me. But one thing is certain… if I don’t really protect myself from being eliminated by the DA, I’ve got to look at other options. They might not really be ideal, but at least they’re not going to look me in the face, but stab me at the back.”
Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.
Watch here
Listen here
Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.037)
ActionSA Leader Mr. Herman Mashaba has the country talking with his party’s coalition choices and possible coalition choices. He is speaking to us now from New York. Welcome Mr. Mashaba.
Herman Mashaba (00:16.69)
Yes, good morning, Chris, and good morning to your listeners. Always absolute pleasure having this engagement with you.
Chris Steyn (00:24.609)
Sir, let us start with Tshwane. X -Twitter is ablaze with comments. Residents are anxiously awaiting the outcome of a coalition call from you. What is the latest, please?
Herman Mashaba (00:38.83)
Well, the latest I can confirm with you is that when I became aware of DA trying to get ANC to work with them in Tshwane, remove ActionSA and work with them in Johannesburg and in Ekurhuleni, that’s when I realised I’m dealing with very dangerous people.
This is not the first time that DA has done something like this to me. Let me take you back to 2019 on the 21st of October 2019. Please listen to the Press conference I had, explained why. In fact before I made the announcement that in the event Helen Zille comes back, I’m going to step aside because I can’t work with people like this who work behind my back because I came across at the time secret meetings between the ANC and Helen Zille facilitating this.…That is why when Helen was elected people didn’t believe me because I said when she comes back, I will resign – and you remember, Chris, at the time who believed Herman Mashaba? Very few people, very few people including literally the entire media but fortunately enough you know that in life when you tell a lie, you’ve got a problem because you’ve got to remember. A year later Helen Zille had an interview on SABC. I’m sure you’ve got a copy of that where she admitted. Okay.
Now this time around we’ve got an election where we had an MPC with them, which fine it did not receive the required numbers wanted. But how they treated us after this like dead – never even had the decency to tell us guys this did not work out let’s move on.
Herman Mashaba (02:41.868)
That’s why, remember, we had a Press Conference to announce us officially getting out of that agreement that DA insisted on us having that agreement in public. You can ask my team. I was against the idea, because I’m a team player when it’s necessary to be a team player. I accepted to really have that Press Conference. And before the Press Conference, DA wanted a clause in the agreement where they were saying, in the event that we don’t get 50 plus one, each party must decide, which we said, no, for us, as ActionSA, we want a clear agreement. We cannot just really have a loose arrangement like this. An hour before the Press Conference, that’s what they accepted.
And I’ve been very clear from day one that I did not really trust the DA’s intention. So I think I’m on record on many occasions, you know. And now this time, after the elections, to come across them trying to negotiate the ANC in Gauteng to remove us from Tshwane. That’s when I said: No. This, think, DA has now pushed me more than I could really take it. They are taking advantage of my anger of the corruption of the ANC. But I’m not going to allow myself to be betrayed so many times and not really fight back. And fortunately enough, people on the ground actually were probably more angry. I’m not sure who was angrier than who, but the people on the ground were really very angry. The said Herman we warned you about this. So that’s when ANC made contact with us. We said, let’s really try it as long as you guys must understand…
Herman Mashaba (04:40.5)
The political dynamics is what it is. As long as we are committed to do the right things, if you want to work with ActionSA, you must understand we want to hold each other accountable; no covering for anyone because Herman Mashaba is not in this game to make friends with anyone. But friendship is important. But it’s a friendship based on doing the right things. And ANC committed to this.
By that time obviously, with the DA, I have realised that I’m really dealing with people who will one day destroy me because obviously the DA is on a mission to destroy ActionSA – and they’re not going to destroy ActionSA under my watch. I can fortunately…I have the capacity to protect myself.
Chris Steyn (05:26.551)
So how soon can we expect a decision in Tshewane?
Herman Mashaba (05:29.974)
Well, at the moment, yes, you’re aware I’m overseas. I had a long-planned trip and the Senate of Action SA took a decision to consult our structures on the ground. By the time I left, I had already engaged with Gauteng PEC. And when I left, they have already consulted the Tshwane REC and our caucus in Tshwane. We now obviously are doing study in the various communities throughout the City of Tshwane. By end of September ast the latest, we will make a decision on the future of the City of Tshwane.
Chris Steyn (06:14.763)
Meanwhile, back in Johannesburg, you are already in a working relationship with the African National Congress. I know it’s early days still, but have you seen benefits for the voters and the residents already there?
Herman Mashaba (06:27.266)
Well, think Chris, I maean any normal human being to really ask progress in two weeks, honestly, I don’t think it is fair. But, I can tell you one example. When the Executive Mayor made a statement about the employment of foreign nationals within GMPD, who stopped them? ActionSA…and ANC had to pull him back to line to say that this nonsense of allowing illegal foreigners to work in our city is not going to happen. That is just really one example. I mean, it’s only two, we’ve only been together for two weeks. But if you want, if you are looking for a tangible example, that’s what I can give you.
Chris Steyn (07:14.967)
So, and that’s how you intend going forward there. Do you have a third Metro in your sight after Tshwane?
Herman Mashaba (07:22.462)
Absolutely, the Ekurhuleni is in our sight. We will have the discussion with the ANC in Ekurhuleni as well.
Chris Steyn (07:42.401)
Sir, Do you regret ever having been part of the Multi-Party Charter? Do you think it would have been better for ActionSA if it were never there, if it had stayed on its own?
Herman Mashaba (07:54.055)
It’s not going to really help anyone to regret. I think you learn from your mistakes. It was a mistake because I think from day one, DA was never committed to the Multi-Party charter. They were just doing this to betray, not us to betray the people of South Africa, but using as an easy target.
But do I regret it? I think I’ve made so many mistakes in my life and that’s why I’m really so grateful to be a human being that I make a mistake today, I’m not going to make the same one tomorrow. So I always have to navigate to find answers to the challenges I face.
And right now, complaining about the past, that’s not going to help me. I think right now it is really to use our muscle as ActionSA to ensure that we can protect ourselves not leave our future in the hands of other people who wants to destroy us like how the DA is determined to destroy us because the DA is determined to destroy us; there’s no doubt about that.
Chris Steyn (09:05.815)
Sir, there are people who have attacked you viciously for going in with ANC. What do you have to say to them?
Herman Mashaba (09:15.639)
Well, let them continue with the DA stance. If they think, if they were under the impression that ActionSA, is a branch of the DA, they made a terrible mistake.
We were attacked before when we went into a Multi-Party Charter by the other people. So I think you’ll always be attacked.
But at the end of the day, we are going to do what is in the best interest of ActionSA, not really what supporters of political parties who are not going to vote for us anyway say. So I think we are going to really do what is in the best interest of Action SA.
Chris Steyn (10:01.067)
Now, there are people who are concerned that the faction in the ANC that’s talking to ActionSA may be the Lesufi faction and not the Ramaphosa faction. Are you able to comment on that?
Herman Mashaba (10:19.458)
Well, one thing I can comment about that. I know I’m dealing with a DA that will stab me without any doubt. So I’ve got to protect myself. Let me try other options available to me. But one thing is certain is that if I don’t really protect myself from being eliminated by the DA, I’ve got to look at other options. They might not really be ideal, but at least they’re not going to look me in the face, but stab me at the back. That’s something that is clear of what options one needs to really explore.
Chris Steyn (11:08.833)
Thank you. That was Action SA leader, Mr. Herrman Mashaba speaking to BizNews from New York, and I am Chris Steyn. Thank you, Sir.
Herman Mashaba (11:18.338)
Thank you so much, Chris.
Read also:
