Gayton McKenzie: Only a united GNU can stop a Zuma tsunami

The Minister of Sports, Arts and Culture – and Patriotic Alliance (PA) leader – Gayton McKenzie has made an impassioned plea for an end to the bickering and infighting in the Government of National Unity (GNU). In this interview with BizNews he describes the current discord in the GNU as a “gift” to former President Jacob Zuma and his MKP.  “If they are not careful, Zuma is going to become the biggest party – and the GNU is the only thing that can stop Zuma, not the ANC, the GNU…” The Minister also takes BizNews viewers behind the scenes of the rugby equity deal talks; gives an update on the challenges and triumphs in his ministry; reveals details of his plans to put South Africa back on the world stage; and talks about his desire for social cohesion.  “My biggest job as Minister of Sports, Arts and Culture is to make sure that we are one nation under God. We don’t have this black, white, Indian, Coloured…We need to move away from that. We are South Africans…And if we can all think along the lines to say: put the country first before you put the party first.”

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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

00:00:16:09 – 00:00:35:17
Chris Steyn
If there’s one minister in the Government of National Unity who is having the time of his life, it’s Gayton McKenzie, the Minister of Sports, Arts, and Culture, and, of course, the leader of the Patriotic Alliance. Welcome, Gayton. Or should I say, welcome, Minister.

00:00:35:19 – 00:00:40:02
Gayton McKenzie
You can say Gayton. Thanks for having me. It’s always nice being on your show.

00:00:40:04 – 00:01:01:04
Chris Steyn
Thank you, Gayton. According to a recent poll, you’re the third most popular politician in South Africa, after President Cyril Ramaphosa and former President Jacob Zuma. But you’ve also been called the president’s water boy and apple-bearer. What do you say to that?

00:01:01:06 – 00:01:25:18
Gayton McKenzie
When the pollsters said we’d get 1 or 2 percent in the Western Cape, I said that polls are for strippers. I still say polls are for strippers. I’m not the third most popular politician; there are many popular politicians out there. As for the comment of water boy and apple-bearer, firstly, I don’t even like apples.

00:01:25:19 – 00:01:48:08
Gayton McKenzie
And, well, why would I like to carry apples for someone? When Neil de Beer made that comment, I won’t resort to name-calling, but my advice to him is that he should focus on building his own party. Maybe one day, he’ll have the chance to do the things he criticizes us for, in parliament, in cabinet, or in ministries where he hasn’t been.

00:01:49:00 – 00:01:58:12
Chris Steyn
Gayton, how is it going in the Government of National Unity? How strong is it holding together?

00:02:05:11 – 00:02:32:16
Gayton McKenzie
Well, I think we started like a rocket. It started very well. But we’re facing our first headwinds. Between the ANC and DA, people make mistakes, like the ANC using terms like “erstwhile oppressors” for the DA, which I think is insulting and wrong.

00:02:32:18 – 00:02:58:01
Gayton McKenzie
The DA also makes critical mistakes, like not accepting that we serve at the president’s behest. As the GNU, we inherited certain laws, and those laws stand until repealed. You can’t just remove laws; you have to go through a process. For instance, foreign policy, which is a hot topic now, remains ANC policy until changed. I don’t agree with most of it, but I respect it as the current policy until we change it.

00:02:58:01 – 00:03:21:09
Gayton McKenzie
You can’t change foreign policy overnight. That’s why we created cabinet committees and the clearinghouse—our brainchild—to address issues like this.

00:03:21:10 – 00:03:52:11
Gayton McKenzie
When leaders go public to play to the gallery, it’s wrong. It’s fine to do that, but know that our GNU opponents are organizing and looking for cracks. We should show no cracks; we should discuss matters privately.

00:03:52:13 – 00:04:17:12
Gayton McKenzie
Look at the BELA Bill as an example. We opposed certain aspects, sections four and five. After discussions, the president took a leadership position, and the ANC agreed to withdraw those points. They deserve praise for that decision.

00:05:02:14 – 00:05:33:09
Gayton McKenzie
We’re now talking behind closed doors. This is the moment to put South Africa first.

Read more: De Beer: Corruption “hostages”, “Chameleon” Steenhuisen on the ANC Smartie Box – and Gayton as CR’s “apple-bearer….”

00:05:37:01 – 00:05:57:22
Chris Steyn
Now Gayton, many of the predictions you made before the election have come true. So, I think you’re a good person to ask—what are your predictions for the 2026 municipal elections? You’ve made predictions before on my show, even though you got a lot of flak for them.

00:06:02:06 – 00:06:28:15
Gayton McKenzie
I think we’re in trouble. And when I say “we,” I mean serious trouble. I remember being on the Daily Maverick platform with John Steenhuisen, Thlabisa, and Mashaba. Stephen Grootes asked, “What do you think about Zuma’s chances?”

00:06:28:15 – 00:06:50:01
Gayton McKenzie
Everyone on that stage said, “He’s not a threat.” I told Stephen Grootes, “They’re all lying. They’re not living in reality. Zuma is going to be a force to be reckoned with. He’ll come in like a tornado.” Well, the rest is history.

00:06:50:03 – 00:07:17:03
Gayton McKenzie
Zuma has shown us. Now, if you think he’s already come in strong, just wait until 2026—he’ll come through like a tsunami. Zuma is working day and night. Now, people who dislike him don’t want to hear this, but we must be realistic. Whether you call them State Capture supporters or criminals, Zuma is bringing people in with a following, and that’s what politics is about.

00:07:17:05 – 00:07:43:06
Gayton McKenzie
Zuma is pulling everyone in. He had a coup in bringing in Floyd Shivambu. We all know Zuma is close to Floyd; it’s clear he’s grooming him. So, when people say Zuma is old—he knows he’s old.

00:07:43:08 – 00:08:16:07
Gayton McKenzie
While the ANC is busy focusing on 2027 and lobbying for positions, instead of concentrating on 2026, they’re leaving space for Zuma. If they’re not careful, Zuma will become the biggest player, and the GNU is the only thing that can stop him—not the ANC. If the GNU performs well and keeps its promises, people won’t want to change it. But if the GNU partners keep fighting, that’s a gift to Zuma.

00:08:16:09 – 00:08:34:18
Gayton McKenzie
Whether you like Zuma or not, he managed to do what the ANC and others couldn’t: he basically dismantled the EFF. That party is finished. There’s no ideology left—just insults. The thinkers have left, and I’m told those who remain are on their way out too.

00:08:34:20 – 00:09:03:06
Gayton McKenzie
So, I’m saying the DA and the ANC need to put the country first. Our party is growing fast; we just won a by-election in George, Ward 20, against both the ANC and the DA. But we have to prioritize South Africa over our party. Trying to make your party’s position the country’s position is playing with fire.

00:09:03:08 – 00:09:41:10
Gayton McKenzie
Some people say they’ll walk away from the GNU, thinking the ANC would collapse if the DA leaves. But that’s a mistake. Gauteng local governments—the COJ, Ekurhuleni, Tshwane—they don’t want anything to do with the DA, and they’re still standing.

00:09:41:10 – 00:10:07:00
Gayton McKenzie
If they think the ANC would rather lose power than work with MK or the EFF, they’re mistaken. Now is the time for cool heads. And, you know, when your leader is under attack, you protect them. There’s a saying: hit the shepherd, and the sheep will scatter.

00:10:07:01 – 00:10:33:19
Gayton McKenzie
When people go after the president, they’re actually attacking the GNU. Zuma has been clear that he wants to see the GNU fail. We shouldn’t help him with that—he’s no fool.

00:10:52:01 – 00:10:59:19
Chris Steyn
Gayton, I just want to touch on your portfolio briefly. Can you tell us what’s happening with the rugby equity deal?

00:10:59:21 – 00:11:17:18
Gayton McKenzie
Well, I think it’s important to clarify, first, regarding my role in sports before we get to the rugby equity deal. As the Minister of Sport, Arts, and Culture, my primary goal is to bring South Africa back to the global stage we held in 2010. We need to be a player on the world stage, hosting events like the UFC and even the Olympics.

00:11:17:22 – 00:11:41:13
Gayton McKenzie
We should be part of the global calendar—whether it’s Formula 1, the Olympics, or any other major event. South Africa needs to be a contender. If we’re truly part of the Global South, we need to be in contention for hosting these events. That’s my main focus. Now, regarding the equity deal, there’s a lot of emotion and speculation surrounding it.

00:11:41:15 – 00:12:11:12
Gayton McKenzie
Many people are unhappy, and much of the public discussion doesn’t reflect the full truth. For instance, claims that the Springboks are being “sold” are not entirely accurate. However, after reviewing the deal, I do see aspects that could be improved. Provincial union leaders reached out to me, asking for help, and I agreed to step in. I then met with SARU.

00:12:11:12 – 00:12:37:14
Gayton McKenzie
I requested that they halt the process—not as an instruction, but as a request. Government interference in sports like rugby and football is restricted by international governing bodies, so I can only suggest changes. I spoke with SARU President Mark Alexander and CEO Riaan Oberholzer, who agreed to postpone the vote. Next week, I’ll be meeting with the leaders of the various unions.

00:12:37:14 – 00:13:04:06
Gayton McKenzie
Two things need to be clear here. First, we shouldn’t act as though investors are lining up to support rugby. It’s not like buying gold bars. When we receive foreign direct investment, disagreements should be handled respectfully, not by calling investors criminals. People like Rob Hersov who criticize the deal—well, let’s see their alternative proposals.

00:13:04:06 – 00:13:25:20
Gayton McKenzie
If this deal is “rubbish,” then bring forward one that isn’t. Business is business, and criticism without alternatives is unproductive. Imagine an auction with only one bid—if that bid is R10, you can’t accuse the auctioneer of corruption. So, I’m working to encourage constructive contributions. Rugby is in dire need of financial support, not only SARU but federations worldwide.

Read more: BELA faces legal challenge from homeschoolers…

00:13:26:13 – 00:13:54:00
Gayton McKenzie
I want to be the voice urging people to collaborate and listen to one another. It’s been exactly one year since we won the Rugby World Cup, and we’re still in the honeymoon phase of that achievement. Let’s not muddy the waters with baseless accusations. Instead, let’s unite and, if possible, bring a better deal to the table.

00:14:16:03 – 00:14:34:18
Gayton McKenzie
SARU would be shortsighted to turn down a better offer if one exists. The Ackerley brothers have shown commitment to South Africa and are willing to invest here. We can’t simply dismiss their offer without providing an alternative. What happens if they withdraw and there’s no backup plan?

00:14:34:18 – 00:15:01:18
Gayton McKenzie
So, I challenge those who criticize this deal—especially those who are passionate about rugby—to step up with something better. Let’s avoid knee-jerk accusations of corruption. Whether someone earns 1% or 20% commission depends on the nature of the deal and the negotiation. You get what you negotiate, not necessarily what you deserve.

00:15:01:20 – 00:15:25:03
Gayton McKenzie
Next week, I’ll return to your show to update you on my meeting with the union leaders. I want to thank SARU for listening to my request—again, it wasn’t a demand, just a request to postpone the vote, and they kindly agreed.

00:15:29:03 – 00:15:38:02
Chris Steyn
You’ve been a mediator in so many issues since you took up your role as minister. What has been the highlight for you?

00:15:38:04 – 00:16:16:17
Gayton McKenzie
I think there have been a lot of challenges. Let me tell you about three major issues I’ve faced since I took office, as well as what has been the highlight for me. One of the big issues was when I was in discussions with people from Formula 1. We were promoting South Africa’s strengths in hosting international events, and suddenly, I received an email notifying me that the Basketball Association was about to go public about us canceling the Under-18 African Basketball Tournament due to a lack of organization.

00:16:16:19 – 00:16:39:19
Gayton McKenzie
This news came just a week before the event, and I had to intervene immediately. It was a nerve-wracking situation. I rallied the staff, telling them to fix this problem urgently. Just three days ago, we received a letter from the President of the Basketball Association, praising us and saying, “How you managed to pull it off was phenomenal.”

00:16:39:19 – 00:17:09:08
Gayton McKenzie
The second major issue was with the National School of Arts. I heard that it was on the brink of closure, and teachers weren’t receiving their salaries. I stepped in to address the issue, ensuring that they received their pay and that the school continued to operate. The third was the Youth Championship in Peru. I found out that our athletes were stuck at the airport because flights and accommodation hadn’t been paid for.

00:17:09:10 – 00:17:35:19
Gayton McKenzie
They urgently needed financial support, so I stepped in with the department’s help, called up a few sponsors, and managed to cover their expenses just 10 minutes before they departed. Thanks to these efforts, we won two gold medals. So, those were some of the difficult challenges. On the positive side, we’re dedicated to restoring South African sports and arts to their rightful place.

00:17:35:21 – 00:17:58:01
Gayton McKenzie
In arts and culture, for example, artists deserve a living wage and should be recognized as professionals. In sports, officials often receive travel privileges over athletes, and we’re going to change that. We’re also investing heavily in sports, aiming to bring back events like Formula 1 and UFC. We even have a big announcement coming on November 20, which I can’t reveal just yet.

00:17:58:01 – 00:18:15:22
Gayton McKenzie
But my goal is to support all sports and ensure that South Africa sends not just 140 athletes, but a minimum of 300 to the next Olympics.

00:18:15:22 – 00:18:30:08
Gayton McKenzie
We’re making great strides and are committed to eliminating ineffective officials who contribute nothing and are in place solely due to political connections. We need the right people running our sports programs.

00:18:30:10 – 00:18:46:23
Chris Steyn
Gayton, you’ve brought so much passion and energy to your role as minister. What is your biggest priority moving forward—not only as a politician and minister in the government of national unity, but as a person?

00:18:47:00 – 00:19:19:06
Gayton McKenzie
My biggest priority is social cohesion. I’ve faced criticism for including Die Stem in the national anthem. Some people still view Die Stem as problematic, but its inclusion shows how far we’ve come as a nation. I often say that white people, who may have been raised with racist ideologies, now get emotional when singing “Morena boloka setjhaba sa heso.” And black South Africans, who once resisted speaking Afrikaans, now sing “Uit die blou van onse hemel” with pride.

00:19:19:08 – 00:19:47:00
Gayton McKenzie
That’s who we are as South Africans. My role as Minister of Sport, Arts, and Culture is to unite us as one nation under God. We need to move past racial and ethnic divides. That’s also why you won’t hear me talking much about my party, the Patriotic Alliance, because my focus is on serving the country. If we all put the country first, we’ll achieve so much more.

00:20:05:13 – 00:20:24:15
Gayton McKenzie
A party can’t exist without a country, but a country can exist without a party. My vision is for us to come together as South Africans, focusing on providing equal access to sports and the arts. Instead of asking why there aren’t more black players in rugby, let’s focus on creating equal access to facilities for everyone.

00:20:24:17 – 00:20:48:21
Gayton McKenzie
The real issue isn’t equal outcomes—it’s equal participation and access. That’s where our attention should be. Once we have equal access, we’ll naturally achieve fair outcomes.

00:20:48:23 – 00:21:07:22
Gayton McKenzie
So, I’m saying let’s build this country. We, as South Africans, are part of a marvelous nation. We’re the best country in the world. And I’m happy—not because I’m a minister, as some people might think, but because I have the opportunity to serve our country at this level. I can see the greatness of this nation.

00:21:08:01 – 00:21:27:08
Gayton McKenzie
We have forgotten that we’re one of the best countries in the world. My son recently told me about an experience he had abroad. He was in a class with about 30 students from different countries. As they each introduced where they were from, when he said he was from South Africa, the class started clapping.

00:21:27:10 – 00:21:40:00
Gayton McKenzie
We are special, and we’ve forgotten that we are one of the best countries in the world. I’m going to play my part as the Minister of Sports, Arts, and Culture to help take us to the top. Thank you.

00:21:40:01 – 00:21:51:02
Chris Steyn
Thank you. That was Minister Gayton McKenzie speaking to BizNews. I’m sure our viewers will be delighted to hear from you again, Gayton. Thank you, and I’m Chris Steyn.

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