Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), turned up to the latest recording of the Sunday Show to deny a viral voice note announcing that he had died at 10pm last night. He goes on, in his customary irrepressible fashion, to lambast top African National Congress (ANC) politicians like Mineral and Petroleum Resources Minister Gwede Mantashe for his failures and excesses; Secretary General Fikile Mbalula for his “insult politics” and that luxury yacht trip to Robben Island. He gives his take on former Springbok coach Pieter De Villiers joining former president Jacob Zuma’s MKP, which De Beer describes as “a tyranny of couch potatoes of the people that are rejected by common society”. He speaks about the dark secrets of the Apartheid-era going to the grave with former spy boss Neil Barnard. And he describes how the low standard of education in South Africa is “killing the child’s future”.
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Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.375)
It is Sunday, 19 January already, and we are on the Sunday Show with Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:16.27)
Yeah, very good morning Chris, coming from a very different location today from the beautiful West Coast Langebaan. I woke up this morning though being told that a voice note is making the rounds that I passed away at 10 o’clock last night and it has gone viral. This is not a hologram. This is not AI. This is Neil de Beer, so I am alive and kicking to the hundreds of people posting on Facebook. Chris, Neil de Beer is baie lewendig. And, yeah, beautiful.
Chris, and just to tell you, we might as well open another BizNews office in Langebaan, because the amount of people that came to say hello and say they love our show. Thank you so much. And to Ilze and Devon from the Eastern Cape. I promise them, you and I will give them a very special shout out. So to everybody, it’s good to be back. And at times, Chris, we want to go overseas to see miracle beauty. We don’t have to. We have a beautiful country, just bad management.
Chris Steyn (01:32.435)
Wow, Neil, I had not realised that the Sunday Show has the power to bring people to life, but welcome back from the dead. Neil, since you do like starting the show with rugby, shall we go to former Springbok coach Pieter De Villiers joining former president Jacob Zuma’s MKP?
Neil De Beer (01:58.838)
Ja, Ous Snorre, né. You know I have a personal relationship with in the past when I was with SA Rugby. As many know, I served on the management of the then Springbok Under-21 Rugby team for 2004 and 2005. And in 2005, we actually won the World Cup in Argentina. And the coach was no other than Pieter De Villiers. And I must tell you, Chris, if you look at him and you only go to stats, one of our better coaches in Springbok rugby, because he went from under 21 coach to Springbok coach. And I had a very personal relationship on his management. And then he joined politics, Chris.
Now we will remember that he went into the GOOD party under Auntie Pat. And then horrifically last year, fell on his own sword because of cases against him and was kicked out of the GOOD party. And, pop goes the weasel. Two days ago, he joins MK.
Now, Chris, I don’t know what kind of coaching is going to take place there, but it seems that MK is becoming a tyranny of couch potatoes of the people that are rejected by common society. am I surprised? A little bit. Am I absolutely surprised? No. It is just going to add to the bunch of clowns that are sitting there and are trying to prepare a takeover. So very surprised. I told Coach Pieter one day, ek is nie geworried oor jou mond nie, coach, dis jou bek wat pla.. So good luck to him, GOOD luck to him and let’s see what happens.
Chris Steyn (03:55.593)
While we are on MK, another resignation. The TG has now quit amid party divisions.
Neil De Beer (04:04.046)
Yeah, another one bites the dust, but Chris, can you imagine being the Treasurer General of the uMkontho we Sizwe Party? Either they tell you to count more or they tell you to count less. So I don’t think the TG at this moment was the actual TG. That’s just my submission. And if I can prophesise, I don’t think it will be the last rumbling on the couches and the benches of MK.
They are absolutely a wish-wash. They are going through a tyranny of losses and gains. Yeah, another one bites the dust. I think this is not the last one. There will be, in my opinion, as I hear, a couple of additions that are coming in the next month. We are waiting for that one very specific one. You know, the one from the red overall coming to camouflage. Dr. Ndlozi. He has not spoken out yet, but no surprise if he declares in a month before opening of Parliament, he is taking a seat.
Chris Steyn (05:14.815)
But the ANC is also apparently very keen to have him.
Neil De Beer (05:19.906)
Ja, kyk hulle vry na hom soos daai eerte drive-in wat jy vir Trixie gevat het, and na die tyd vra hulle what was die movie and then you say, no idea. Look, they are really rambling to get to him. And I must tell you, I will not be surprised because, be that as it may, Jelly Tot overall or not, he is not an uneducated man. He is not a person that you should take lightly in the sense of ideology.
Neil De Beer (05:48.3)
He is well-versed, he is well-spoken. I remember in the Parliament he was frequently getting up and laying down quite credible lines. You know, he has a doctorate, he didn’t buy it. He has really, really an education. So maybe it wouldn’t be bad if he’s drawn into the lighter side than the people that sit currently in the dark.
So, but he’s either apparently, Chris, as the news is, is either going to go on an academic line, which he will follow because he has that credential, or he is definitely going to join a political party again.
Chris Steyn (06:29.065)
Well, he would be an asset to any party, Meanwhile, the African National Congress is holding its NEC meeting this weekend. I would imagine that the fate of the Gauteng and KZN PECs are making for heated debate as is the arrival in style, for want of a better word, at Robben Island of the SG on a yacht, a luxury yacht.
Neil De Beer (07:00.046)
Dit gaan lekker. Ja dit gaan lekker, né. No, it’s going well. I mean, feeding from the trough and your people are eating nothing. This is the continual failure of the bourgeoisie, the top end of the ANC. Now, it’s not a critique. This is fact that they just don’t get it right. You cannot sit with shoes that cost 25,000 rand, a watch that’s 50,000, arrive at certain meetings in rural entities where water is a luxury, with G4, G8 and 12 kind of wagons, all of them over the cost of 2-3 million, and then the coup de grace, the cherry on the cake, die vetjie in die pan, is you now go with a private sponsored yacht to an ANC remembrance day on Robben Island.
Now I’m talking here in specific about Fikile hy doen f… vere because this man is a litany of rubbish. Now I’m going to focus quickly on him, Chris. The way that Fikile, the way that people like Gwede Mantashe, the people…Did you notice, Chris, the kind of style of politics that they play? Their style of politics and when I now tell our audience and I decipher it, they will start listening to him and this is how they play the game. They play insult politics.
Chris. Fikile Mbalula’s style is he goes on television and then he calls that guy a nyanya boy or a tricky man or he insults people. Now it’s only an idiocracy, an idiot that will go there and not bring a solutions politic but just breaks down everybody in their character. That’s him.
So, when he was asked, why did you not go with a normal Robben Island ferry that was booked and paid for by the ANC to go do this remembrance, remembrance on an island where Nelson Mandela and the leadership had to chop stone so that you could have freedom, he said, well, you know, the reason was that he had so many other obligations that he had to be given different transport.
Neil De Beer (09:29.058)
And then he was asked, this guy that owns, this billionaire, that owns this yacht, was it a donation? Was it a gift? And his words were, well, it wasn’t a donation and that’s exactly what it was. But just the absolute nonsensical ideology of the imagery, we call things in politic imagery.
They’re not getting it right. So he’s just not getting it right. He got told, but this is now the second time the imagery is wrong. And he just blatantly says, well, you know, it was given to them as access to transport. But I’m telling you, it doesn’t run well for the people on the street. Not whatsoever.
Chris Steyn (10:19.145)
Talking about imagery, Neil, with the ZAMA ZAMA horror drama coming to an end now, it has also emerged that the Minerals Ministry blew almost 2 million on international travel in four months. What do you have to say to Minister Mantashe?
Neil De Beer (10:38.094)
I don’t know, are they flying in gold-embossed jets and staying in lavish castles? I mean, Chris, 1.97 million red up till book dates since being sworn in, that’s what now, six to eight or whatever months. Where are they going? I’ve read the dissection of Gwede Mantashe who I would like to maybe spend three, four minutes on. I don’t just want to ask him
Neil De Beer (11:06.86)
how do you spend 132,000 rand for two nights of accommodation? Wie de hel het jy da? En watte spitbraai! I mean 132,000 rand, Chris, on two nights accommodation and the rest of it he’s flying around with 1.8 million rands worth of travel. Now let’s make that into a summary. He flies Business Class and he’s got three or four assistants, God knows why. But 1.9 million, that’s a lot of money, Chris. And I’ve travelled, as you know, you’ve travelled. That’s a lot of money for that period of time. And then the question is when Gwede does travel and meets the people, is he awake?
So I want to dig in to Uncle Gwede, just quickly, if I may. I want to start with the absolute rubbish scenario…
Neil De Beer (12:05.024)
of the current Stilfontein Zama Zama tragedy. Now Chris, when people write to us, they say that this is their info session for the week. They get a lot of wrap-up the week from us because we call it straight. So here’s fact that very few people know.
And all of the Zama Zama scenario is currently ending at the door of none other than Gwede Mantashe because he’s the Minister of Minerals and Mining and he must take this punch. So here it comes. Chris, 1949, Stilfontein Mine starts and starts to grow. 1949. And in the year 2013, that mine shuts down. They start to redeploy. They start to regenerate and lay people off and by 2015, Stilfontein’a official licensed mine ceased to exist. Not within a month, Zama Zamas, in specifically apparently illegal immigrants from Zimbabwe, entered those mines illegally in 2015, Chris. Government does nothing. Police does nothing. Only in 2018 is there a sporadic investigation and SAPS enters the fray to remove the Zamas Zamas. And this continues to 2020. In 2020, the Zamas go times three in size. They don’t just double up, they three times go and no one takes action. And then Chris suddenly in 2024, August, they launched the new operation …which has now brought us to the point where we are today. Chris, 13 years since 2013.
Neil De Beer (14:27.98)
The total destruction and illegal mining was being laissez-faire. They did nothing. So when you look at Gwede, who’s absolutely responsible for this, the 78 bodies that they are taking out, the starvation downstairs, the total repelling, the 28 million they are spending on policing, the total destruction of more than 89 billion rands worth of loss to government in revenue in this past 13 years of illegal mining can only be put at the table of the most executive officer and that’s Gwede Mantashe.
And can I tell you what’s the worst? Two weeks ago, Minister Mchunu, the Minister of Police, and Gwede, goes to there to go do oversight and within 30 minutes are booed and chased away by the community. So that’s Gwede. So instead of traveling around the world, you better go sit there, get yourself a tent or a gazebo and sort this out because it’s becoming a human tragedy.
And then, Chris, three nights ago, Gwede sits on a TV show and has to explain what is the success of BEE…that he gets so cornered on the ANC policy of BEE and he is asked, but is there success in BEE in the past 30 years because we don’t see it. And he says it’s a policy and policy takes time to get to the bottom ground. Now I think your brain is at the bottom ground because BEE, Chris, and you know my stance, is definitely not working…
Neil De Beer (16:22.988)
It’s a failed implementation. It absolutely only made a few people rich and the population never got empowered. So I say scrap BEE and put in NEE, National Economic Empowerment. And he sat there as he was chewing an old Wilson toffee….he couldn’t answer and I said, embarrassing.
This is the chairman of the ANC. So I’m sorry it sounds harsh, but that man, as you can now see, is failing on so many sides and the things he’s failing in, Chris, are critical. These are not small things that he is failing.
Chris Steyn (17:14.707)
Quite, Neil. Meanwhile, many secrets from the Apartheid era have gone to the grave with former spy chief Neil Barnard. Now I had my run-ins with him and you had dealings with him. I will leave it to you to comment.
Neil De Beer (17:35.436)
Neil Barnard, commonly addressed as Doc. Yeah, Chris, very true, you and I have debated that. We’ve had our history with Doc. But his books that he has brought out as an author, in many ways, I think he was trying to do what FW de Klerk was trying to do, I think in the latter part. And that was to explain their actions and also to make people understand their character.
Now let me quickly tell you, I can’t deny that he was a dynamic thinker in his own right. And what I’m telling you is that he was not a person that you should take up lightly. This was an educated professor. He was a very schooled human being. And he was very, very strategic when he took over at a mere age of nearly 31. Not as minister or as Head of National Intelligence at that stage, Chris, but SOD, Stategiese Ontwikkelings Departement. And that was apparently set up by PW Botha. He was personally chosen, if I’m not misrepresenting facts, because I think at that stage he was at Free State University, where he was lecturing. Can you imagine at that early age being called up to such a position by die Groot Krokodil?
Neil De Beer (19:22.582)
And his instruction in actual fact was not Intelligence at that stage, but was actually to strategically start, and yes, the mind blowing thing, a very, very intense department of gathering intelligence and info for the future planning of democracy and those meetings.
Now, we know, Chris, fast forward, he then became NI’s head of National Intelligence and partook then in the first meetings with Nelson Mandela. And that’s where we engaged and started to notice this young man.
Ruthless, I will add. This human being, you must not be mistaken. He was a ruthless man in the dark side, Chris, and many people will say, yeah, people will say, a good man, but no, no. When you go to the Nazi era,
Chris Steyn (20:09.097)
You don’t have to tell me that, Neil. I got the full brunt of it.
Neil De Beer (20:21.912)
There were dynamic people in the Nazi party that were incredibly genius, but still were part of a Nazi regime. This man, make no mistake, became the pinnacle strategy in the last dying moments of the National Party and the Apartheid era to keep it alive and to defend it. I mean, he sat directly as NI Head on the then State Presidential Security Council. Die Staatsveligheidsraad. And this man had a huge influence on the then era of where we ended today.
But Chris, one thing clear, he has taken a lot of secrets with him to his grave. He stood till the very last keeping those secrets. He did not publish them – and I am afraid that will never come out with him passing away. So he’s one of the last stalwarts, you know, in the Pik Botha, FW De Klerk, PW Botha era, that will be taking so many pieces of paper memorized in their mind of atrocities and things that were done in that era.
Chris Steyn (21:56.327)
Yes. Neil, meanwhile, with the school year starting, the consequences of the BELA Act are becoming clearer. Not so.
Neil De Beer (22:10.698)
It’s rippling. It’s like the domino effect. It’s coming. And if you look at the scenario, people mustn’t be confused or be detracted about what the media says. I want to give you one horrific statement, which was given by an educator in public regarding the so-called euphoria about the pass rate of last year. I’ll start there. No doubt we did great. No doubt the statistics are showing that we raised the bar. But, Chris, here’s a very, very sad statistic. Do you know that when they took the class of a specific time, 2013 until graduation, that it started with, may I call it a figure of let’s say 1.2 million that went in? And did you know that out of the 1.2 million people that went in at start of school, 660,000 were the only ones that graduated. So, if you talk about pass rate, it’s actually based on the fact of the depletion of the people that entered and did not finish school, halve that and give that the pass rate and then think to yourself, Chris, that the pass rate to get to pass school has also gone from a certain percentage to 30 percent. So when I saw that analysis, it actually was very confusing and it dampened this absolute euphoria.
So, we have to seriously look at the situation of is the current school process giving the child enough adequate academic info so that they can go from school to university where the pass rate has not been adapted to the school level. So this is a critical mass scenario. And then I’m not even talking about the fact, Chris, that if a graduate in South Africa in Matric at that pass rate has to go overseas with that certificate and find a job. I mean, this is not global standard. This is not internationally what we’re doing. And it’s actually a disservice.
Neil De Beer (24:34.294)
It’s not transformation assistance, it’s actually killing the child’s future. So that’s the one thing. We don’t have enough schools, so let’s fast forward. There’s no classrooms for the amount of people that wanted to come in. Our favourite friend, Mr. Lesufi, says that, yes, they recognise that, and here comes the BELA Act, which he is the biggest supporter, promoter. These are his words on SABC. Not one child in this province of Gauteng will be left outside and due to legislation and the new regulations, we will put them where we find space – and that’s his declaration. That sounds BELA to me.
And the other shocking thing is the mother writing to a newspaper saying I wanted to place my child in a school, but 250 people that are not South Africans got the classes first. So here’s fire. Hier’s nou hout, Blitz, flamme en rook, all together. People that are not in areas taking over schools, people that are not in this country taking schools, the inadequacy of getting enough schools built, and classrooms available.
And I’m sorry, still today they have now extended by a week, Chris, the allowance of people still to apply to get to schools. And then I don’t even want to go into the next nightmare. And that is the period when people go back to university. Because when you look at universities, at NSFAS, dis nou waar jy ’n absolute Jelly Tot trifle Dis ’n gemors.
And they know it’s coming. And every year they are caught with pants, shirt and bra off. That’s nothing. And what do you do? I mean, how do you say to these people luister gou-gou julle moet regkom. It’s coming. And I’m sorry to tell you, Chris, it’s going to be a dismal failure for the students at universities as well. And it’s not fair. It’s not right because these young people are the future of our country.
Chris Steyn (26:59.451)
We’’s be talking about that again in other Sunday Shows, Neil. Thank you for today’s and I’m grateful that you turned up alive. What can I say? The immortal Mr. Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement on the Sunday Show with BizNews and I am Chris Steyn.
Neil De Beer (27:22.008)
Thanks Chris and a great week for all our adamant supporters and viewers. And that that don’t support us will win you over piece by piece.
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