Neil de Beer: The GNU in crisis, the land act, the leadership battles, MK’s “missing millions” – and tragedy in the Congo…
In this edition of the Sunday Show, Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), comments on the crisis in the Government of National Unity (GNU) following President Cyril Ramaphosa's signing of the Land Expropriation Bill and says Democratic Alliance (DA) leader John Steenhuisen "can't just now throw toys out of the cot; he has to now go to the table and see if he can save the GNU". De Beer slams the attacks on Public Works Minister Dean MacPherson from Deputy President Paul Mashatile, ActionSA and the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF). "I think he's taking away too many people's fat chow." De Beer gives a peep into succession "battles" in both the DA and African National Congress (ANC) where word has it that there is "a female under the guiding light of Cyril Ramaphosa, whom he favours". As for The Hawks raid on the office of DA Deputy Federal Chair JP Smith and another MMC, De Beer says there is "a clear GNU strategy attack…now filtering down to local government level". De Beer warns that while the GNU is weakening, former President Jacob Zuma's MKP is growing stronger. "MK is sitting and they are waiting for the right moment." Lastly, he describes the fierce fighting in the eastern DRC in which at least eight SANDF soldiers have been killed.
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Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:01.976)
Welcome to the Sunday Show with Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.
NEIL DE BEER (00:10.494)
Yeah, very good morning. What a week. Like flash bangs every second minute. So I think a lot for us to discuss today and great to be back.
Chris Steyn (00:21.422)
We're not going to get to every crisis the country has faced this week, but let's start with the biggest one, the Government of National Unity is most definitely in crisis following President Cyril Ramaphosa's signing of the Expropriation Bill.
NEIL DE BEER (00:39.09)
Yeah, Chris, the news unfolding. There's such a lot to say about it, but let's condense. It has now become very, very clear that there are major, major problems within the GNU and in specific, the two major parties, the DA and the ANC that are keeping that bridge alive. But it seems to be that old movie, you know, The Bridge over the River Kwai. It's being attacked. It's not stable.
But Chris, may I tell you speaking to several of the stakeholders, here's the following. No matter what happens, there are two people that are very much the glue and the people that have put, I think, their political career on that stability. And one would be Cyril, believe it or not, and the other one, John Steenhuisen. Those are the two people who carry that crown, which is obviously heavy on the head.
So let's unpack it Chris. Until yesterday's very clear line in the sand from John Steenhuisen at the DA press conference where in specifically the two people that are under attack but more Dean MacPherson declared their statement and their points of view for the first time unilaterally not as ministers of the cabinet but as people in the DA. So yesterday was a DA conference, but let's reverse.
It now becomes apparent that Cyril Ramaphosa goes ahead without informing these people in the GNU, specifically John Dean Macpherson and those odds and sods that make up the cabinet, that he was going to sign the Land Expropriation Bill. This is shocking, not because this is a matter of, oh I forgot and will brief you later, but in my opinion, a direct calculated scenario of embarrassing the people who are actually going to have to put it to the test and to the road. But in my opinion, Cyril was influenced to do so…
NEIL DE BEER (03:04.424)
…so that he could garnish a couple of extra support.
Can you imagine sitting in Davos as the leader of the formal opposition, cabinet minister, and you get told this huge bill being signed on social media?
What is more shocking, Chris, is that the minister, who will have to take that bill and implement it, is Dean MacPherson. And now it comes out that Minister MacPherson, who also is under attack and we will get there, is currently saying that about a month or few, he actually got legal opinion that the current bill as signed by the President is not carrying constitutional muster. And what does Cyril do? He takes that document and puts it into pile Z and signs it irrespective of advice from the cabinet minister who will have to go and make it constitutional.
So that is the litany of what happened in this week. And now we've got a matter where John strongly came up, but we have to understand Chris, he can't just now throw toys out of the cot He has to now go to the table and see if he can save the GNU and that's why he used the words, yesterday verbatim, we will have to ask the President to reset the GNU. And that is where we left yesterday's total litany of the Land Expropriation Bill.
And then lastly, Chris, on this matter, Dean MacPherson stands his ground, goes out and says, I am not going to implement this act in my department.
NEIL DE BEER (05:00.454)
And not a day later, Paul Mashatile, who is still under a cloud of absolute scrutiny, comes out and threatens Dean MacPherson and says if he does not want to implement the laws of this country, then he must resign as a minister. And typical Dean comes back and says, Jou Moer, I won't resign. That is up to the member and leader of the DA.
So that's where we are. The GNU currently standing in this gray matter and John rightfully so yesterday invoking what they call Clause 19 in the discussion document and the contract document, which means they are calling for a formal dispute.
Chris Steyn (05:43.662)
Well, Minister MacPherson is not only under attack for his opposition to the Expropriation Bill, Neil. ActionSA has called for his suspension. The Economic Freedom Fighters have joined in to lay criminal charges, apparently because he interfered in a payment process. Unduly so is the allegation.
NEIL DE BEER (06:04.128)
Yeah, I mean, I mean, if it's not what's next, the colour of his shoes, the size of his wallet. I mean, we are now really clasping here. It's like Chris, when you get a potjiekos and everybody goes first en hulle kry die vleis and you get the carrots. We are now scratching at the bottom of the bill here. If it's not blue lights and old to new cars, it's now the matter of emails – and they hyenas are sitting and they will actually take every scrap they can. The EFF is the actual people that went to go lay the criminal charges. But what I wanted to know is those red jelly tots run like a couple of ants after a Hewlett sugar bowl on anything they can get but in the end of the day they've got a couple of charges that lay there themselves. So I thought, wow, Pot calling kettle black. They entered an email as proof that Minister Dean MacPherson committed crimes and fraud. Chris, I have the email. And the email, if you look at it, wragtig, if you can find any scenario in that written email, where there's blackmail, where there's fraud, where there's asking for suitcases under the table, you show it to me. The email, Chris, is very plain and simple. A mail from the minister to a person that is an official, asking that person that there is a litany of companies that are supposed to be paid by IDT. And this is now becoming embarrassing, not to the department, but to his minister's office. That's what I read into that. Yes. The question is, did he overstep the powers as allocated to the executive? And is there a clear line split between executive power and that of, can I call it, administratin. But, Chris, that's not a crime.
NEIL DE BEER (08:18.718)
That is not a criminal charge. That person laying the charge should have bypassed all the other things like we used to do in Monopoly. Don't buy Eloff Street want hy is ook nou moer toe. Go past Begin and actually lay the charge at Parliament, Chris. Because the accusation is that Minister Dean MacPherson overextended the rights of his ministerial power. Nou luister now vir my. Dit is nie krimineel nie, that's procedure and process. So that would be the question, did he or did he not? Would I do it? You're damn right I would. If someone came to me and said that there are companies providing services to state and they've not been paid for months, I would write a letter to the DG or to the members and say, why are you not paying them? But this is not so, this has been clouded because it has to be a clouded affair to attack the GNU and totally defame Dean MacPherson. And on this matter, I'm not a big supporter of any of those political parties, but on this matter, a load of hogwash. They're trying to screw the bucket. They are trying to dig at Seviwe firstly. You will remember they tried to get her fired. Then they are now trying to touch out to Dean MacPherson. And now they're trying to lambaste the GNU.
This is an, I'm telling you, this are the first shots. Under the trenches to start attacking and moving the DA out of the positioning. I think it's going to fail if it really gets to the mind, if calmness can reign.
But on this one, Chris, I'll call it. Dean MacPherson? No way. I think he's scratching too much. I think he's taking away too many people's fat chow. You know, he's trying to say we will save and they are saying, but we would like to steal.
That's my opinion, Chris, and I don't think I'm wrong.
Chris Steyn (10:21.878)
In another move that was a bit of a blow to the DA, the raid, the Hawks raid on the office of Deputy Federal Chair JP Smith, Neil, and another MMC, apparently to do with a one billion round housing tender that a former MMC has been charged with. What do you know about that?
NEIL DE BEER (10:46.4)
Chris, as you know, I sit on that committee. I am a city councillor of Cape Town. I sit on the Safety Security Portfolio Committee. And more than that, I also serve on CIVOC, which is the Civilian Oversight Over Policing of the City of Cape Town. We did not know. Rumours are always about, Chris.
Alderman J.P. Smith has been in that position for more than a decade. He has a lot of enemies and he has a couple of people that like what he does.But in his position as the MMC for Safety and Security, it is a very sensitive cornerstone of any system, which is the policing system, and he leads that.
What happened? Very clearly is that you will remember there was a major scenario a year or so ago where another Member of the Mayoral Committee, Mr. Malusi Booi, was in actual fact also raided by the Hawks and was and is now standing in court charged with multitude of matters of fraud in the construction housing department.
I can tell you, and you should know when I tell you this, that it is the truth that the Hawks or the Serious Crimes Investigation Unit entered that premises without the knowledge of many of the top executives, including me. I was told by a WhatsApp from a person sitting in the council chamber that there is a serious movement and it seems it is a Hawks.
What we now know, Chris, is that warrants were executed to two MMCs and that currently the mayor is saying that he needs to have a meeting with SAPS so that they can find out what were the charges and what were the reasons for such warrants to be executed.
The fact that it is now again on local government level from the DA does not make the situation easier. It seems Chris that the spotlight…
NEIL DE BEER (13:06.388)
call it on the DA which is currently being put to the front, is happening on all levels.
So there is a clear GNU strategy attack and that is being done. It is now filtering down to local government level.
I issued a statement yesterday and said that in no way must any due process, must justice be stopped to run its course in any way and if there were wrongdoings, the Mayor of the City of Cape Town will, and as I know him, act very swiftly.
And it also came through the statement of John yesterday that if there is any smoke that turns to fire, they will have to execute the measures that are required. I hope so. I will be keeping a hawk's eye, pardon the pun, on that matter, but that it is a front pager that is absolutely not necessary and not wanted at this moment in time, it is as clear as daylight because of course we are attacking stability. I am not pro or against that in the sense of a political party. I think you know where I stand. But we are just running into matters now that every time this country is sitting and going, ooh, aah, moer and it isn't good for us.
If you look at the world press, it is absolutely shocking what goes out to the media when a person like Cyril signs things that have a global interaction, but he claims that he built a nice snowman in Davos. Sy gat man, it absolutely is not a snowman. It looks like a draconian dragon in the midst, and it doesn't help us.
Chris Steyn (15:02.274)
Neil, what impact do you think these latest developments could have on the succession battles in the African National Congress and the DA?
NEIL DE BEER (15:13.212)
Massive Chris, we must never underestimate the greed. You know, I always say I'm a fan of these huge movie trilogies, know, Titanic, Lord of the Rings. And one of them is Lord of the Rings, you know. And when I look at that, they had that little guy called Sméagol who actually wanted the ring. You know, my precious. And when you look at certain of these politicians, you actually see Sméagol.
Because Sméagol, normal nice guy, suddenly changes into this horrific, greedy guts. And I can notice some Sméagols amongst our politicians. So we mustn't underestimate the power of Sméagol coming out into people like Paul, ek is onrelevant, babyface Mashatile. This man is so desperate to ensure that every time he gets a couple of news strokes into the canoe and he is absolutely trying to battle and become relevant by attacking GNU, attacking the members. He's keeping relevant.
Lesufi, I think, has now been told that there are many people that are trying to drown him. That's why they had the lekgothla. But I think he was saved by the skin of his nose because he's also not going to stand back and then we have this fumbling verende Fikile. So that's rising but there's a couple of interesting moves.
We now hear, Chris, that there is a female under the guiding light of Cyril Ramaphosa, whom he favours. So it's not just Mr. Lamola. We now hear there's an extra person who is on the Cyril tutorial. And we will be following that very closely to dig up the name.
On the DA side, I think it's just facetious. But it was brought to the fro. So we've been dealing with the ANC for a couple of weeks. Who is, who's out, who's in. Suddenly the DA fracas comes to light where they are saying that John is being challenged. That there's a rumour that Tannie Helen is part of the synopsis of pressure…
NEIL DE BEER (17:34.108)
…that names like Geordin Hill-Lewis were mooted sd to replace him. And then the emphatic denial that there is no such scenario and that there is currently the point that in 2026 that the DA will go to conference and that John will remain in place.
May I say though that on both sides there are problems but not the only party that is currently seeing earthworms uncovering the gravel.
Chris Steyn (18:03.982)
Cilliers Brink's name has also come up as an alleged favourite of Helen Zille.
NEIL DE BEER (18:12.564)
Chris, I just think, I clearly think, it will be disastrous to remove John at this current moment as leader and from the GNU, like him or don't. Those are the people in the room and if he leaves, it's a crumbling system because most of the people that are in support of him are serving with him in Cabinet. And it will be a crumbling scenario, like it or don't.
If that happens, mid-GNU creation, like the rocket taking off, I think it will explode and ignite and the after gas burn is going to be damaging to us.
We have to settle, Chris. Like it or not, I am now a proponent of the GNU because we have no choice. Because the alternative, yeah, I know it's becoming a cliché, but it is a fact. The alternative is too terrible and we'll speak about it now to even contemplate. So we have to support, we have to get to stability. We're not even a year in the GNU. In Italian they say, calma di tutti da calma, kalmeer, sort out what we need to, but damn it man, South Africa deserves a bit of traction in this matter.
Chris Steyn (19:27.186)
Meanwhile, over at former President Jacob Zuma's party, MK, a party that would be waiting in the wings should the GNU implode, Neil, along with the EFF, apparently between 11 million and 40 million rand has gone missing from its coffers.
NEIL DE BEER (19:47.978)
You know, Chris, weet jy way is 'n aasvoël? 'n Aasvoël. Hulle sê 'n aasvoël is 'n geduldige voël. You know, that is a bird that sits there and is very patient because it first has the lions to eat, then the hyenas, then the other slaughtering animals, and finally he gets his chance to nibble at the boats. That's MK.
MK is sitting and they are waiting for the right moment. We must not for one minute fall for the absolute smokescreen that they are in disarray.
Now here's the fact, hear me, they let their TG go a week before their main huge conference and their stadium event in December. They then let him go and then the replacement, TG, resigns a week ago as well.
Now the money that we are talking about is ranging rumoured between 11, 28 or 40 million. First, the spokesperson denies emphatically that any money is unaccountable for and lost and then has to subdue a week later to say, yeah, well, there are discrepancies. Now, Chris, if it's 11, 28 or 40, it's still a million. It still has six noughts. Now that money, they get from three sources. They get it from membership, they get it from donation, and they get it from government. They get it as their parliamentary IEC contribution list. So a third of it is State money. Ooh. So currently, the money is gone.
No one is saying it's a serious matter because there are investigations, but because like we know, sorry, I think as we know MK, it's like a couple of people walking into an Indian restaurant. They only have 24 bucks, so everybody's taking a bite at the Bunny Chow. I think they are wrecking that scenario and they are treating it like a cattle feast.
NEIL DE BEER (22:09.214)
They are not going to settle until they settle.
But here's the thing, Chris, I want to give you an analogy. Do you know when you make jelly?
When you make jelly, it's liquid and you put it in the fridge to stall. Now Chris, a very good guy told me one day that you still have a certain point where you can still take the jelly and put it into another format. But once that jelly has become jelly, you can't change that anymore. MK is a slow settling, fridged jelly. It is currently still liquid, it is in and out, it is left and right, but it is, I'm telling you, it is too big not to settle. It's got 58 members of Parliament. I see a new person entering now again onto the parliament. The ex-speaker of Joburg Metro, Colleen, is going in.
And it is a litany of changes, but it's because the jelly is settling. Once that thunderous, uncouth, dark bowl of jelly settles, it is then that I am thinking we will have to turn our head a little bit and dig deep on what is coming.
You are right, Chris. They are the uncouthed, incoming, proverbial second degree. And I'm worried that we are fighting still to settle GNUs, to sort out systems of government, and that we are not understanding that one drop of this penny, they are going to collect the cash. And then I'm afraid we are doomed
Chris Steyn (23:54.636)
Hmm. Hmm. So they are strengthening while the GNU is weakening.
NEIL DE BEER (24:02.462)
Yeah, so it's a strategy Chris, I mean you know, say it or don't say it, I'll say it. They have a very, very strategic, street-wise president. Call him what you want, uneducated, old, senile. I know that man. Jacob Zuma must never be underestimated of what he can think of. And I am saying we are hearing people say, but what if he dies? Well, because yes, what if he dies? But you know what counts? He's alive today. And every day they are getting stronger.
The EFF is collapsing. You don't see Julius Frikkie Malema. Sorry, my word, people like Frikkie now just died. Hoekom noem jy hom Frikkie. Pietie. But he's irrelevant. I think he is sliding slowly away.
The DA now has its contestations. But I believe that sound minds this week between John and Cyril might bring us back to those discussions. It's not just John.
The IFP has now climbed in, also rejecting the land issue. I'll tell you why, may I? In conclusion, the IFP cannot afford for this land without compensation bill to continue because one of the biggest land owners in this country is the Ingonyama Trust, which is under the auspices of His Majesty the King of the Zulu. And this Land Expropriation Act might also rumble out to take Zululand. And Chris, if there's one nation in this country that doesn't take much to go into revolution, it is that part of our country.
So I think there will be major, major rumblings, but Chris, it's not over. BELA, still a fight. Land fight.
Chris Steyn (26:28.715)
NHI.
NEIL DE BEER (26:30.406)
NHI upcoming fight. The next one I'm telling you, here's a prediction before we end. Do you want it?
Chris Steyn (26:39.341)
Mm-hmm.
NEIL DE BEER (26:40.48)
The next number four will be the increasing scenario of BEE to 75% in a company from where it is now. And also this ridiculous and we'll unpack it next week, 100 million fund or 100 billion fund. Again, doubling up transformation because BEE failed. And here's the fifth one, they're going to start taking away our guns. So one, BELA, two, land, three, NHI, four, even greater BEE, and five, ownership of weaponry to private citizens in this country. Those are the five burning issues. And then six, religion, seven, language, eight, freedom of speech, nine, freedom of movement, and lastly, number 10 absolute clampdown on what you may and may not say in public as a broadcaster. They are the 10 points predicted today by Neil De Beer. Watch it closely. Tick box for tick box. This country is writing laws and is becoming a Stasi, Nazi, woke, liberal, communistic, nationalistic society. A proverbial digress from what Nelson Mandela and them believed in a free capital democratic society because that's what the Constitution says in this country but Cyril and his Hogwarts seem to absolutely say that this Constitution is not worth the paper.
Chris Steyn (28:24.832)
Lastly, at least eight soldiers have died in fierce fighting in the Eastern DRC.
NEIL DE BEER (28:34.496)
Shocking as if I am not being told from people there because I was there. I have a history in Goma, the DRC, Entebbe, South Sudan as you know. Because the media is now writing a litany of absolute shocking news.
It started Thursday when M23, who has been going for years since time, I remember that we were part of looking when I was in the service, at the then capture still of Bosco Ntaganda who as you know, came from Rwanda and led M23 in the late 1920s, so 2013 he surrenders, 2019 he gets sentenced to 30 years for crime against humanity. So they got a new leader. M23 has been building up. They have got a big proportion to the north of Goma. And on Thursday, a camp which we are South Africans with MONESCO in a little place called Sake was attacked without warning, which is absolutely a question mark that we did not have that intelligence. It is a mere 80 to 100 kilometers from Goma and M23 battled and planned and attacked us on Thursday morning. By Thursday afternoon, the battle rose to a proportion where we started to lose people on our side. Two people died in that skirmish and by Thursday evening they had surrounded our base camp in Sake.
We started to repel with everything apparently we had. G5, G6 cannon, even starting to shoot on higher positions with anti-aircraft fire. We were using mortars and any other ammo that we have. By Friday, we were starting to run out and another three people on our side died, which brought the number to five. By Friday night, Chris, it is rumoured that we had totally…
NEIL DE BEER (31:03.568)
..used up our main bulk of ammunition and we were screaming for support. There are two ORYX helicopters and that was the only air support we have. Shocking that our Grippin aircraft at this current moment only had access to 12 missiles and that was the capacity of stock because Denel has not started to perfect its own. Now what's 12 missiles going to help you and that's what we had. One ORYX chopper damaged, so both of them had to be flown out.
And at the height of now the death confirmed of nine of our soldiers, many wounded, Angie Motshekga and her entourage decides to fly into the theater of war. God knows what makes you think that you can be a Montgomery to fly into the theatre of war while our people are in intense battle because suddenly what happens Chris, instead of us backing our own men in a prolific nearly hand-to-hand combat, the bloody minister decides to come and do an oversight meeting and on record says, well if our men are fighting on the field, how will it not look if I don't go and support them? Wat de Donner soek jy daar? So suddenly, as I know as an ex-soldier, you have to now focus to protect the minister. Because now suddenly a VIP has entered and now you have to ensure the security of not just the minister but the head of the Defence Force. Chris, this is a circus and we are being told that by the men. So what they were doing there, I think is to go find out how stuffed up their support was for our men and women on the ground.
That's it Chris. And I'm not hearing this through the media only. This is a horrific part of our current situation in the Defence Force. How many times have you and I not spoken where they say they are under financed, under budget, they are running out of aircraft, hulle het nie 'n bloody vloot meer nie, so what can happen is, they can attack us in a canoe. It's a litany of tragedy, but here it is, and I'm heated because I'm an ex soldier.
NEIL DE BEER (33:27.646)
How do you deploy people when you know you are under-capitalised, under-staffed, under-logistical wise and no support? And it's outside the border of our country where you need even more support, Chris. They even sent the wrong ammunition for the right weapon. It's like having an 80mm mortar and you are trying to put an 81mm pipe into that. Dit pas nie. So there we are. And if it wasn't this tragic, it would be an absolute comedy, but here it is, Chris, people died.
What are we doing there in the first place? We don't even have a Special Force Unit currently supporting our entity, because normally every single battalion has a spes group with it. So tired, unreplenished, nearly zero air support, lack of ammo. They had to scuttle and send two aircraft out of Waterkloof on Saturday with ammo and Chris, no new men to replace or support them. So that's where we are.
May God have rest and peace on the fallen soul and to their families. But I'm telling you, Neil de Beer, and many are going to not let this one go. We are going to watch this. We are going to find out because it's not just there.
But Chris, I'll end by saying something in the good spirit. It is now clear that a few good men and the woman that are serving in support and combat, faced one of the largest battles they have ever had except for CAR, when a current grouping and we lost 28 soldiers there. I'm proud of them. My heart goes to those that stood the ground and did not surrender because the good news Chris, they have held Sake, they have not surrendered no matter what. May we pray, send our hopes…
NEIL DE BEER (35:51.334)
…our support to South Africans who are currently in our name, battling in that ground. They must know that we will support Chris. If Neil De Beer was the Minister of Bloody Defence, I would not have been flying in to make a speech. I would have gone in my camo, my combat gear, my rifle and my heart, and I would have gone and joined them, because that's the kind of leadership that you need on all levels in this country and I'm sorry you will surely concur it is lacking and lacking it remains.
Chris Steyn (36:31.832)
Thank you. That was Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement on the Sunday Show with BizNews, I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, Neil.
NEIL DE BEER (36:42.644)
I need to go get a cold drink. I'm a bit heated under my collar. Thanks, Chris, and look forward to the next Sunday of Just Truth. Anything else does not count with us on this show.
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