Former President Jacob Zuma’s daughter, Duduzile, has been stirring up controversy again by swearing at MKP SG Floyd Shivambu on social media and then apologising publicly in response to a sternly-worded letter from her father. But in this interview with BizNews, MKP’s real founder Jabulani Khumalo – who was ousted by the Zumas – says the hidden hand behind Duduzile’s outrageous behaviour is none other than Zuma himself. “Zuma gives instructions to Duduzile….When Zuma wants to deal with you, he doesn’t deal with you directly… He wants to deal with Shivambu because he doesn’t believe that Shivambu is going to do what he wants. Zuma will not tell Shivambu directly. He would want to do a dirty way of doing it…(then) clever Zuma, he goes out and says, no, you must apologise to Shivambu.” Khumalo stresses that he remains a registered member and the founder of MKP. “And that I will prove…very soon before the court that Zuma stole or forged my signature together with his daughter.” As for Zuma’s real agenda, Khumalo says: “He lies and says he wants to unite black people. He’s not uniting black people. Instead, is dividing them more and more and killing other parties, black parties for him to get membership and then steal the money and use the money for himself, not for the benefit of the people.”
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Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.206)
Former President Jacob Zuma’s daughter, Duduzile, has become his party’s biggest headache. We speak to a man who knows her very well, the real founder of MKP, Mr. Jabulani Khumalo. Welcome, Sir.
Jabulani Khumalo (00:20.012)
Welcome, Thanks for having me in your studios and greetings to all the South Africans and the people of the world.
Chris Steyn (00:29.832)
Sir, what has caused such bad blood between Duduzile and SG Floyd Shivambu that she would swear at him in such a bad way on social media? They seemed quite close at one point. What went wrong?
Jabulani Khumalo (00:50.83)
Thanks for the question, Mam. But let me go back. I think in our culture, when you are being brought up, you are told the values of how to behave and how to work or live with other people.
If you learned very well and you listened when your parents, your elders, you, you will definitely be able to be humble, be able to know how to handle other people or how to talk to other people or how to manage things when you are within the community. The problem of our youth today, on certain settings, not everyone, is that some of these kids, they’re well-taught. Could be, is there negligence or the parents did not do their best to teach them how to behave or to respect other people. That is the problem.
Now, when it comes to the MK, when we started MK, I started MK with the honourable people, people who knows how to respect, how to talk to the people, whether old or young. They know what it means. And the people that I registered the party with are people of good hearts, good minds, and a very loving people for their country and for their people.
We registered Umkhonto because we respected our elders, we respected our kids, we respected our young because we believed that what they say is true from their hearts. That if we register Umkhonto we Sizwe, and we will go to them, whether they’re young or old, and listen to them, and we will humble ourselves before them…
Jabulani Khumalo (03:15.798)
…so that we are able to tackle their issues. Because if you are not humble, if you misbehave, you will never be able to lead the people. You can’t be a leader when you can’t handle or observe the people that you have before. Because if you behave like you live in a jungle, then our people are not that stupid. People believe in our culture. And they believe that if we are a leader, you will be able to come down and be at their level so that we are able to listen to them. We are able to take in what they say.
Now, the problem within the MK today is that the people that were there, making sure that MK grows to where it is today, those people are still humble. Those people, never shouted. They never said anything bad about anybody else. When they were moved aside, when they were taken out of the positions they were holding, they never fought. They never insulted nobody. They came, they became quiet. They came down, they listened, and they even listened to them, to those that are now saying they are the leaders of the party. They respected them. Some of them, they go and support them, even though they are rough handling them.
For instance, like Duduzile, she has messed up lots of people in South Africa. She has done this insult, insulting of people to many people. Not only Floyd, not only myself, not only certain individuals, but many people within South Africa.
The problem is that Duduzile…I don’t know how Zuma taught her when she was young. I don’t know whether she did teach her the respect. Because what, from what she did to me, because what she’s doing to Shivambo now, it’s exactly what she did to me. It’s exactly what she did to other comrades…They were badmouthed by this very same…
Jabulani Khumalo (05:43.82)
…lady. We respect her. That’s why we have never attacked her because we believe any human being deserves to be honoured and respected. But she continuously misbehaved, continuously disrespect no one she wants to have around as if she’s the founder of the Umkhonto we Sizwe. When she was not, we just picked her up from her house just to assist her father with administration. That’s all we wanted her to do. We gave her the task to do the administration between the organisation and the IEC. But her father then took her and gave her other jobs that we never give to her. Those job descriptions now she’s doing, we don’t know who gave her that position. So that is why she’s doing what she’s doing.
Jabulani Khumalo (06:43.34)
She did not get this from us or from the right people. To your question as to whether she’ll have a good working relationship with Shivambo or not, I would say Duduzile is not working in isolation. Zuma is part of the misbehaviour of Duduzile.
Jabulani Khumalo (07:13.908)
Zuma gives instructions to Duduzile. Let me say why I’m saying that. When Zuma wants to deal with you, he doesn’t deal with you directly. He finds ways to find somebody to do the dirty things against you. Then he comes in as if he’s a mediator. When he’s not a mediator, he is the…Zuma is part of the foundation of whatever is happening at the time. So Zuma is part of Duduzile’s problem against Shivambu. He wants to deal with Shivambu because he doesn’t believe that Shivambu is going to do what he wants. Shivambu is coming up with his own understanding and political vision. But Zuma doesn’t like that. Because if Shivambu is implementing something that Zuma doesn’t like, Zuma will not tell Shivambu directly. He would want to do a dirty way of doing it. And then that’s what he’s doing now. That’s why Duduzile is so crazy doing whatever he’s doing to Shivambu. But clever Zuma, he goes out and say, no, you must apologise to Shivambu. Fooling us. Trying to, I don’t know what he is trying to do, but it’s all his Zuma’s making what is happening right now. Duduzile is insulting people because Zuma has asked her to do that. It’s an instruction from Zuma.
But people who love Umkhonto must make sure they don’t allow Duduzile and Zuma and all his cronies to destroy Umkhonto we Sizwe like he is done to the ANC. He has destroyed the ANC and he’s here now in Umkhonto and he’s destroying Umkhonto we Sizwe.
Tell me, how on earth can you have somebody who was not a founder of the party, he has got his own constitution that talks to him and him only to say he is the leader for life. We haven’t gone to even the conference. There is no policy that has taken a decision. He is refusing the organisation, he refusing the members of Umkhonto we Sizwe…
Jabulani Khumalo (09:39.768)
…to have a chance to elect the rightful people who are going to lead the organisation. He has done what he’s doing. He’s tried by all means to block the conference so that nobody contest it. The reason why they don’t want to install or to elect the branches, because he knows that if there are branches that are existing live, they will contest it. They will tell him what is wrong and what is right. He doesn’t want people to do that. That is why he says the organisation will not go to the conference because they are going to contest it. That’s why he’s taking decisions with a small number of people to say this is how the organisation is going to be right. That’s why he doesn’t want that because he wants to control the management of the organisation. Today, the organisation was supposed to have what we call constituencies, offices. There are no constituent offices. Why?
The government is giving the money out to MK to have those constituencies, but there are no offices. MK is still run the way we were during the time we launched it. Because we did not have money to open the offices. Still up to now there are no offices. Why? Because there is money in the organisation. Why you don’t get the offices? Why don’t put the proper structures to run the organisation going forward? That’s my question. And then you begin to see all these insights, all these things that are taking place.
I’m not saying Shivambu is a good man or whatever. He’s got his own flaws. But the way they’re handling him through the daughter is the same way, it’s the same strategy they use on me. So Shivambu must wake up. Otherwise, he’ll be out of the gate with him before he knows. Because as much as he’s working hard on the ground for people to support him, I think he was better in the EFF than where he is now. He was enjoying being a leader in the EFF, but yeah, definitely he needs to think about it.
Chris Steyn (12:01.374)
So what do you think of Duduzile having been charged with inciting violence during the 2021 riots?
Jabulani Khumalo (12:09.582)
Well, that one, I don’t want to interact on it. Because it’s got a lot of politics in it. And I would say, no, let me not comment much on it. But the government must do what is right in the courts.
Chris Steyn (12:35.464)
Now, Sir, many people have said that Mr. Zuma will always protect Duduzile regardless of what she does. And apparently he’s aware of everything she gets up to, protects her. Is that so?
Jabulani Khumalo (12:52.096)
Zuma will protect Duduzile, I don’t know, but there will be no way that he will allow anyone to touch that girl or anyone to say anything about him. Because once you say something wrong about Duduzile, then you have touched Zuma. He can die for that lady, for his daughter. You can’t touch him. Because even myself, isn’t… Sorry. The reason why we…we had problems because I was complaining to him about the same thing, not knowing at the time that he was the one pushing Duduzile to do the wrong things. So you come and complain to very same, to the culprit itself, thinking the culprit is Duduzile, whereas Zuma is the culprit.
Chris Steyn (13:44.668)
What is his ultimate agenda, Mr. Khumalo?
Jabulani Khumalo (13:49.614)
I think Zuma has reached his time in politics. He’s supposed to be resting at home, making sure that he leaves everything proper and keeps his wives happy. But he’s back in politics not because he loves politics, not because he loves the South Africans or he wants to assist the African people. It is just that he wants to earn more money. He makes himself some money out of the organisation. He can’t do it in the ANC anymore. He can’t run the ANC. He can’t go back and get the funding through the ANC because that’s what he was doing during that time. Now, he is in the MK just to make the MK and get the money, but he will never assist the South African. He is telling them lies that he wants to…assist them but it’s not going to do that. His time has lapsed. He must allow South Africans, people in the MK who have been in the MK, leading the MK, to lead the MK, he must sit back and advise. That’s what I always ask him to do, but he has refused. Because if he can advise, they should take the organisation forward and he must step back and sit there. Things in the MK will run properly. Otherwise, if he’s still there, will still be problems because he doesn’t want proper organisation administration to take place.
Chris Steyn (15:27.784)
Sir, have you heard anything about the millions that have allegedly gone missing from MK’s coffers?
Jabulani Khumalo (15:35.502)
Well, MK is rich today. The government is putting money, from the money to the MK. And I know there are other monies that are here, they’re from different sides towards him. There’s Morocco, I heard something about Israel and other countries and other people that are putting money. There are so many rumours about MK getting these funds. But when you talk to the members on the ground, they’re still struggling to do their day-to-day matters. Because they don’t have funds. But you hear these things, then you wonder where this money goes to.
Chris Steyn (16:19.634)
Now lately they’ve lost a couple of by-elections. It’s not looking good.
Jabulani Khumalo (16:27.194)
A MKP will never at this moment win any elections. 2029 May was the last because in the MK there is no structures. There are no proper policies that are being followed. There are no proper communication. There is only one communication and that is…Every decision is Zuma. Everything that has to be done is Zuma. Zuma cannot run the organisation. He failed the ANC. He failed it dismally and he failed the government dismally. What do you think, what do you expect him to do in the MK? If he could not be able to lead the organisation, the ANC, big as it is, what can he do with the MK? He can’t do anything. We started having problems during his tenure.
Then Ramaphosa took over his problems and continues with his problem. We started having this as we registered all these parties because Zuma started not treating people right as much as There are things that he did that were right, but he messed up because he wanted to put us to take over our country. He made sure that people are always kneeling before the group to get jobs or to get to parliament or whatever. There are so many things that he has done that were wrong. But we’re not against him. We’re not fighting against him. All I’m saying, must step back, allow young people, people that love MK, must take the MK forward.
Chris Steyn (18:12.754)
Despite everything that has happened to you, Sir, you are still a member of MKP. Yet you have
Jabulani Khumalo (18:18.698)
I’m still a registered member and the founder of the MK. And that I will prove it very soon before the court that Zuma stole or forged my signature together with his daughter. They must tell the whole world how they wrote that letter, how they signed that letter beside over and above the letters that I submitted to the EIC and the EIC must explain how and why on that day specifically they didn’t see that that signature was not mine was always they know my signature they’ve got so many letters that I wrote to them but that signature was never on that on those letters but to that day they decided to take that letter even not even though they saw it’s not my signature but they need to explain and they must tell the world why they did that?
Chris Steyn (19:16.456)
So you are saying you are not gonna walk away from the party you founded.
Jabulani Khumalo (19:21.92)
No matter the threats that I’m getting, no matter the troubles that I’m getting, because of the lies that Zuma has been telling the people that I’ve got 400 million, I’ve got so many millions, when he knows that he’s the one that is getting the millions in the bags into his house, but he goes out and tell people lies and says I’ve got money. I don’t have those monies, but I will not rest and I will not allow him to continue with his lies.
So many people have lost their jobs. So many families have been broken because of Zuma’s lies. I will not allow him to continue to destroy us or destroy anyone else because Zuma is doing nothing else but to destroy the African people because he doesn’t have the love of the African people. He lies and say he wants to unite black people. He’s not uniting black people. Instead,
is dividing them more and more and killing other parties, black parties for him to get membership and then steal the money and use the money for himself, not for the benefit of the people.
One, Zuma had the chance to change this country. We have a constitution that is giving us problems. He had all the chance to do that, but he didn’t do that. But he says now he can do that. And we believed him. We believe his lies. Zuma had a chance to change agriculture into something else, but he never did that. He had all the chances. There were so many things that he could have done during his tenure. He had all the chances. He had leadership that he could have made them to do the right thing. He did not do that. Instead, he focused on the Guptas to steal the money of the South Africans and then do whatever he wants to do and allow them to take the money out of the country.
We’ve got mining today. We’ve got so many mines in South Africa that are stealing our minerals every day. Zuma was there to stop that. He never stopped it. But he says he can stop it now. Why he didn’t do it that time? Why he failed to do it that time?
The very same people that are in parliament right now are the people who worked with him before. And he says he can tell them now to do something different. But what’s surprising is that…
Jabulani Khumalo (21:47.08)
…now that there are people that were appointed to have done wrong to make our government go down, those very same people, he has taken them and moved people from parliament and replaced them with those people.
The people that the government lost millions when in their hands, but they are saying now they are going to change. What are they going to change? If Transnet, if Prasa, if all these government entities went down through those guys and you’re saying you bring those guys back and you say those guys will do something different, there’s nothing they’re going to do. Instead, will steal more. They will take the country down again, even worse now.
So, MK we did not register it. I did not suffer so much. I did not use my money and the money of the comrades to register the party to enrich certain people who have failed their state, who have failed our government, who have failed us, who have failed our children, who have failed our grandparents.
There is nothing new that Zuma and his cronies are coming with. Instead, they are coming to loot the government. They want to get into government and loot it and take everything and leave South Africans suffering.
South Africans must not be fooled. Zuma must go and rest at home. People who are leading MK, they must come back and lead the MK. I’m not saying I want to be a leader. If I get a chance to lead them, I will lead them. But if they believe there’s someone who can lead, except Zuma, I will support them. I will go behind them and vote for that person. That is why I’m saying let us go to the conference and Zuma must be out. But I will take him out before the conference because I’m going to make sure that the government and the courts, they understand that the IEC and Zuma did very wrong.
Chris Steyn (24:01.256)
Thank you. That was the real founder of MKP speaking to business. Mr. Jabalani Kumalo and I’m Christine. Thank you, sir.
Jabulani Khumalo (24:11.096)
Thank you so much. Mam
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