The Sunday Show: Neil de Beer on Rasool, Mashatile, Gayton, Hersov & Helen…

De Beer rages about “the ultimate embarrassment and shame” of SA’s Ambassador Ebrahim Rasool getting expelled from the US

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16 Mar 2025, 2:07 pm

In the latest Sunday Show with BizNews, Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), rages about "the ultimate embarrassment and shame" of South Africa's Ambassador Ebrahim Rasool getting expelled from the United States for race-baiting. "… this is while he's sitting in the USA, where he is, no doubt, one of the few people that…needs to calm this American fire that's burning…Well, he just blew it." De Beer also dissects the speeches of some of the top speakers at the past week's BizNews Conference: He slams Deputy President Paul Mashatile for speaking about fighting corruption with dockets hanging over his own head. "When you speak in that manner, you have to have credibility…Heaven forbid he does become the Number One." De Beer has rare praise for Sports, Arts and Culture Minister Gayton McKenzie as "one of the loudest flag-wavers" of the Government of National Unity (GNU). "I'll tell you after again seeing him, his speech and his enlightenment of the crowd, I might start to like Gayton McKenzie." De Beer hails the Democratic Alliance's (DA's) Helen Zille for delivering the payload with her opening address in which she spoke about the challenges of being in the GNU. "But…she echoed many a sentiment: this is the only option that we have." De Beer also shares his theory that the State's increased "focus" on certain outspoken personalities could have led to billionaire Rob Hersov not coming out "firebrand, accusational and lightning" in his speech as usual. "He nearly became a diplomat…Anti-ANC as always, pro-GNU, but very calm. Maybe a once-in-a-lifetime delivery."

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Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

Chris Steyn (00:01.583)

Welcome to another Sunday Show with Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Morning, Neil.

Neil De Beer (00:11.394)

Good morning. Good to be back in sunny Strand in Cape Town after spending a great week with the BizNews team in Hermanus, meeting so many great people, some maybe avoid. But yeah, we're going to talk about it today and looking forward to our programme as always and welcome to our viewers.

Chris Steyn (00:35.269)

Thank you, Neil. We'll speak about those very important speeches a little later, but first let us go to the latest disaster that has hit our country, our ambassador being expelled from the United States.

Neil De Beer (00:52.908)

Yeah, Chris, it's like a morning when you wake up on your way to having a cup of coffee and someone side swipes you with a Bower non-stick pan against your head. Ek meen jy word so gemoer, jy's duislig. Because that is the stunning and terrible disaster that we again wake up to. Chris, can I tell you that this is the first time, as far as I'm knowledgeable about, that in the past 30 years, a diplomat or a person representing our country has been declared persona non grata by a foreign state.

I want us to stop there because this is the ultimate embarrassment. This is the last line. I think that any person, no matter your stance, no matter your opinion on what Mr. Rasool had to say, put your emotion aside and let's quickly calm down and think like a reasonable person.

Mr. Rasool, who by the way is not unknown to the US, who has been an ambassador overseas, is also a person schooled in politics and diplomacy. He was a premier of the Western Cape, is a stalwart in the ANC, therefore all of this equals no excuse. None whatsoever as far as I'm concerned. So when you take the ANC and you take the rhetoric of where you stand on politics aside, here's the cold fact. You're a diplomat. There's a word derived from that called diplomacy.

Neil De Beer (02:53.57)

And you can extend that word to understanding what is decorum. You don't need to be literate, educated, you just go look it up. But decorum, diplomacy, diplomat, all burns down, Chris, to one thing. That you always show courtesy, respect, manners, build a bridge, calm a relation and ensure that when you do all of this, you keep in mind that when you open your bloody mouth, you speak on behalf of 60 million people on behalf of the country that you sit there.

So Mr. Rasool joins a webinar, a public posted webinar where he is asked to give certain of his opinions. Now, Chris, when you sit there, Ebrahim Rasool matters not. Hy's glad nie belangrik nie. He's there, put there, on our behalf as South Africa. So there's no way that at any point, Chris, when he speaks, he can speak of Ibrahim. He's an ambassador, 'n ambassadeur.

And what does he say? Shocking. Chris, he says that Donald Trump and his government are planning, plotting, and causing the total destruction of so-called democracy. In other words, that they are formulating an absolute strategy against all opposition in the United States, basically. And then he says, no doubt that Donald Trump is awakening and stirring the awakening of the supremists in that country.

Chris, this is while he's sitting in the USA, where he is, no doubt, one of the few people that can sit there and needs to calm this American fire that's burning and making sure that it is calm. Well, he just blew it.

Neil De Beer (05:26.062)

Mr. Marco Rubio immediately said he's not welcome here. He has 72 hours. Jy moet uit. Vat jou goed en trek Fereirra.

And currently, do you know what is the comment from our Presidency? It's regrettable. Regrettable. Regrettable is when you drive your car, you get a puncture and you regrettably find out you don't have a wheel nut. Regrettable as jy staan in 'n lift met 30 mense en jy doen 'n poepie, maar dit is mie. Regrettable is when you wanted a softboiled egg but you get a golf ball. Regrettable is when you turn around and you are so happy about a promotion that you turn and you kiss your mother-in-law. That is regrettable. This is not regrettable. This is bloody disaster. And this government says, it's regrettable. Jou gat is regrettable. This, Chris, is the ultimate shame we are now sitting with – and this country has to now wake up and ask only two questions. In conclusion on this matter, Chris, two questions. Is the ANC doing this because they are calculatedly stupid, ignorant and naive?

Neil De Beer (06:52.906)

Or two. This is done on purpose. There's only those two channels.

And Ronald Lamola in finality stands there in front of a microphone, looking as if just came from a padel game and says, we were very shocked. We were very surprised that they did this. And by the way, the Americans didn't follow the right channel. Luister gou-gou, koekenaap. You don't even have a channel and you shouldn't be in a channel.

So there we are. What an absolute disaster in Afrikaans, gemors. Because we better fix this and we better fix this quickly.

Chris Steyn (07:38.531)

Neil, let's go to some of those important speeches at the BizNews conference. Most of our viewers were not there as week only being able to accommodate 550 people. They will be able to watch those speeches as we air them this week. But I would like you to ask your comment on some of those. Let's start with Vice President Paul Mashatile

Neil De Beer (08:03.99)

Non-starter. Let me quickly tell you, if I didn't know he was the Vice President, I would have probably offered him a cup of coffee and asked him his opinion about the Deputy President. The only way that I knew it was Paul Mashatile is the thunderous sirens, the black, black cars, the amount of bodyguards and him entering with them. Funny enough, I did not see when he entered anybody get up – and normally in protocol, the people ask the people to rise. No one rose.

So you know, Chris, I said to a person the other day, a person should not do character assassination. If you have a fundamental problem with a person because he is performing a duty, is in a position, or speaks on behalf of an entity, focus on that.

It's very difficult though when you look at our current leadership not to look at the character and define the character. Chris, when I looked at the character and realised that this is the second most important citizen in our country, I don't think this guy will inspire me to enter a Wimpy in the middle of the night and eat slap chips with my hands, which I like. So no, the character was absolutely not inspiring.

And I then said, leave that, let's hear what he has to say. The dreaded 55 minutes. Chris, the Vice President of this country, who is probably the incumbent president, as many people are saying, heaven forbid, said absolutely nothing that was new.

Neil De Beer (10:02.572)

But when I listen to him and him saying that we are fighting corruption.

Neil De Beer (10:11.266)

One had to have a comic relief moment when he said that, you know, the current VAT increase lately is only a temporary measure. And when he said that this country is absolutely a country of hope, that the GNU is important, and that he will always be on the side of a better South Africa.

Chris, when you speak in that manner, you have to have credibility. You cannot speak on behalf of a country, a citizenry, when you yourself need to be credible.

So I think out of his speech, I took absolutely nothing. I am sorry, my opinion.

And here's the thing, people started to heckle him. There was a person in the crowd that said, your time's up. Then when he said in his speech, in conclusion, people started a few to clap hands.

And then the crescendo crisis, while he is speaking, we had the authority to ask questions via a group WhatsApp. So Neil De Beer had my opportunity to strike this burning question, which I think many, probably not all, wanted to know. So I did not know if Alec would pose this question because it was dramatically straightforward as always. And my question was a question from Neil De Beer – that should have set the tone…And then the question was, Mr. Deputy President Mashatile, whilst we understand that this government…

Neil De Beer (12:11.252)

…is supposedly now attacking corruption, may I ask that seeing you are rumouredly charged and accused of several crimes, would you allow yourself to be scrutinised and vindicated so that we can have a sense of credibility in you? Question mark. And lo and behold, Chris, Alec Hogg reads the question to Paul Mashatile in front of those 600 people. Let me tell you a pin, when it dropped, would have echoed like a siren in that room. Doodse stilte.

And then, what does he say? Well, he says nothing. He goes on a absolute journey of saying that if he is charged and when he was charged and when the accusations came, listen to this, Chris, he would appear in front of the parliamentary, listen to this, the Parliamentary Ethics Committee, not a court, not an inquiry, not a commission, not a public investigation, not a court of law, oh nay, nay, a parliamentary ethics committee. That is incredible to myself. That is like a mongoose deciding to run away from a tiger and to go sit amongst cobras.

So Chris, shocking. Is this the same Parliamentary Ethics Committee that is overseeing the Zondo Commission? Is this the same ethics committee that listens to Andile Mngxitama speaking about…

Neil De Beer (14:11.574)

…murder and mayhem of white people. Is this the same Parliamentary Ethics Committee that's overseeing Julius Malema on the accusations of VBS, firing a firearm in public, and calling for murder? Is this the same ethics committee that oversaw the weapons scandal, et cetera, et cetera? Well, sorry if I am not confident about him facing such ethics committee.

But the best comment came right afterwards by Chris Pappas, one of our great mayors, when he said on the WhatsApp after Paul's speech and my question, he said slippery and absolutely dodging that scenario in that sense. So disappointing and heaven forbid he does become the number one.

Chris Steyn (15:00.881)

Let's go to the opening address delivered by the Democratic Alliance. Ms. Helen Zille

Neil De Beer (15:18.934)

Yeah, the best one. You know…

Chris Steyn (15:21.873)

You would say that Neil, you know, your girlfriend.

Neil De Beer (15:24.3)

Yeah, because I like her and it's my right. And if I think she spoke nonsense, I tell her. But when you speak about a person standing up and speaking amongst all of them, I can name them and we will name them. The person that I will always sit up and listen to is a person like Helen, not Helen; a stateswoman. I call it the statesman. You know, there's a difference. So one can be very critical of Helen. Doesn't matter what side you're on. You either love her or you hate her. Again, I wanted content. I wanted to hear what's going on. Because undoubtedly, she was the only one from the DA speaking in a leadership mode. So either John or Helen had to say some stuff that would give us an insight on how the GNU is working.What is the GNU doing and is it actually getting traction?

So what was surprising about Helen and her opening speech was that a huge amount of Helen's opening speech was not domestic. And I remember looking at you and saying that the content of the first 40 minutes was a journey globally defining global politics. And many people after her said that they would not comment on the international debate because Helen covered it. And that just didn't come from me. It came from Prince. It came from many. And I must tell you, the way that she put it, it was put into context and I understand now why we are where we are. So her defined reasoning of Russia, Ukraine, Europe, what's happening currently in the Middle East and specifically the US, I appreciated that.

But then she went into the GNU and clearly her opinion…

Neil De Beer (17:47.35)

….was that it was one of the most difficult things that she and many have to deal with. That it is not sunshine, milkshake, and banana float. That it is desperately challenging. But, and she echoed many sentiment, this is the only option that we have.

She was quizzed about the budget. Chris, while she's sitting there, every half an hour she has to leave the tent. And the obvious reason was they were busy speaking about the Budget. Because mid our conference this tragedy happened. And no doubt she did allude that if it is not a people's budget, the DA would vote against it and therefore the budget would not pass and well now we know that happened.

So yeah, she stood out for me. I have had my disagreements, so have you. But at the end of the day, we are talking about did she impress in her speech? Yes, I think she delivered the payload as what I would have expected.

Chris Steyn (19:01.137)

Somebody else who argued passionately for the survival of the Government of National Unity was the Patriotic Alliance's Gayton McKenzie.

Neil De Beer (19:15.97)

Yeah, Chris, what a character. I… Yeah, you know where I am. You know, I understand from so many people that he doesn't like me, that he has got a very low thinking of me. So does millions. But he's a character.

A lady came to me and said to me, he said the F… word 13 times and that's not what a minister should do. So I kind of grinned and said, she counted it.

Yeah, Chris, you either like him or you don't. It's like a Pina Colada either. You either swallow it down or you'll get stuck halfway. That he is a character, that he has got a way as an orator and that he has undoubtedly a energy, kind of a passion, you will never be able to take that away from Gayton McKenzie.

Is he a great minister? Well, he does things, you know. I will not be drawn into a character assassination of this man because at the end of the day, I don't think it's necessary. He's doing what he's doing. He set a couple of goals out there. I like the way that he's attacking the matter of transformation, the mere fact that he's taken on certain rugby, cricket and football associations. And his dream of bringing the F1 Grand Prix to South Africa, I'm totally biased on that. Yes, I support it. And he said that that is his end-term goal.

So did he speak on behalf of the GNU? Yes, he did. Is he one of the loudest flag-wavers of the GNU? Absolutely. Has he putting his firing sword aside against the DA? Yes, publicly, you were there. He complimented and in actual fact supported Helen, which was previously an absolute ridiculous note to even think that he would.

So Gayton stood out. He is a character.

Neil De Beer (21:43.855)

I haven't changed my opinion about him and his past and neither should people change theirs about mine. But what we should do is give some room, give some introsdpection and today I'll tell you after again seeing him, his speech and his enlightenment of the crowd, ooh, Chris, I might start to like Gayton McKenzie.

Chris Steyn (22:16.885)

Well, somebody who does like him very, very much is Rob Hersov, who also spoke at our conference. What did you make of his address, Neil?

Neil De Beer (22:28.352)

Not a Rob Hersov speech.

Chris, you know Rob, again, has got no filter. Rob says what he wants on what he wants to whom he wants. And on many occasions, I have watched Rob say things that even a guy who is as daring as me, I would not say it. And…I recall Chris that everybody waits for thunder, lightning, donnerweer en bliksemstraal with Rob. Because that is the person we've got to know.

What a different human being on his speech at the BizNews conference. Chris, I have my theory why he did not come out firebrand, accusational and lightning Rob Hershov. I might be wrong. The previous day before Rob spoke, I spoke. I was one of the opening speakers and privileged to do so with you. And in that speech, I said to Rob, is Rob Hershov here? And he wasn't present at that time, or he was and he just didn't put up his hand. And I actually said to him, Rob, you are undoubtedly on a list somewhere in some agency for what you are saying. Now people will say, Neil, but you say a lot. Well, no. I don't say anything unless clearly fact-checked, clearly evidence on the table and ready to produce it in court.

Neil De Beer (24:26.346)

Rob also does not use the word allegedly, presumably. He doesn't. And I'll use one of the things that he continuously says. He definely says, on record, Iran paid the ANC. Let's stop there, Chris. That's a statement of fact. That's not rumoured, allegedly. He says it as fact. Now, if they charge him, if the agency arrests him for incitement of violence, corruption, fraud, whatever crimen injuria, and they take him to court, you can't say you heard that. I'm sorry. You will have to show the transcripts, the EFT, the photos of the bags getting off an aeroplane, the transcripts of bank accounts.

Now I don't have that. Yeah, people tell us they have it and assume they have. But I said to Rob, you can say it, but you have to say that this is a rumour, that this is allegedly. And that, is starting to become a problem in this country that the State is focusing on people like Rob Hersov, Kallie Kriel, et cetera, even me and, sorry, you.

They calculatedly listen to what you say. They want you to make a mistake and I'm not going to make it because if it's not fact, it's not fact in evidence.

So I listened to Rob and the next day when Rob spoke…What a different discussion. He nearly became a diplomat, and it was calm.

And three times, I think, in the two days, Chris, that I spoke to him, he was clear on saying that he thinks he's going to be arrested or that people want to arrest him. He said that at a Hermanus Business meeting that they are going to arrest him, and he's under suspicion and all that. So it's clearly in his mind.

Neil De Beer (26:43.426)

But I also think that Rob, in his mind, thinks that he has got a get-out-of-jail free card because of his association with someone. I don't know. All I can say is beware, be careful.

And that was my opinion about Rob's speech. Anti-ANC as always, pro-GNU, but very calm. Maybe a once in a lifetime delivery.

Chris Steyn (27:12.091)

Neil, your own speech was so well received, a standing ovation, apparently the first ever at the BizNews Conference. It was very emotional. For the crowd – and for you, I know.

Neil De Beer (27:26.094)

Yeah, yeah, Chris, the standing ovation is something that doesn't even feature in a person's mind. I spoke, and when I got off that stage, I didn't even know what I said.

All I know, Chris, is that, I want to read a quote, if I may. When the risk of doing nothing becomes the biggest risk of all, that is when a nation must rise. Because clearly, the majority of people in this country are still doing nothing.

When I spoke to you, I was in a bubble. I was emotional. I was sitting in front of 600 of very important and high-flying people in this country, decision makers in the room.

But you and I know that when my emotion kicks in and my soul speaks and my heart cries, I can't keep it back. And I wanted to tell this country that although we have so much negativity, so many blatant idiots running around and I won't mention names, Ibrahim, and you know, when you speak about things to the public, there's one thing I wanted to translate to the people. And that is my love for this country. My passionate feeling for these people and my fight will never run out of breath as long as I'm alive. And when I said that, I think we touched the nerve of a country. We really spoke the truth, like we always do, but this time, because it wasn't on a camera, there were 600 people sitting here and…

Neil De Beer (29:30.708)

…I saw tears everywhere, yours on a big screen. And I think the standing ovation was not for Neil De Beer and was not for Chris Steyn. I think the standing ovation was for hope, was that feeling in a room that you can tell people, countrymen, countrywomen, fellow South Africans, that we shall not retreat, that we shall not surrender, that we shall not be classed as guests in our own country, that we shall not be offered freedom as a fugitive or as a recluse in a foreign country, that we will pile down our roots, hammer down our massive tree trunks of sovereignty and that we will not capitulate under the dark clouds of an ANC system who wants to uproot us, who wants to deny us our history and who wants to pulverize our power of unity in our diversity. And that is why they stood up because we unilaterally said in Afrikaans, silently…jou gat…

Neil De Beer (30:54.124)

…we are not going to accept this.

And that's why I think Chris, they got up and applauded the will of the South African spirit. And if that was so, wow, what a moment and what an absolute blatant show of support of what we do.

Chris Steyn (31:19.197)

Thank you. That was Neil De Beer. On the Sunday Show was Chris Steyn

Bye, Neil.

Neil De Beer (31:29.176)

Thanks, Chris.

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