In this latest edition of the Sunday Show. Neil de Beer says Police Minister Senzo Mchunu is licking his lips for the return of AfriForum’s Kallie Kriel from the Afrikaners’ latest mission to the US amid a dispute over farm murder statistics. “…there’s a little bit of a facial expression from Mchunu that this is not just about a discrepancy, but this is about: I’m waiting for you.” As for criticism from other Cabinet ministers, he says: “I sometimes think that these ministers that are going through allegations – and there are more than 20, 30 of them – they actually beg that people like AfriForum go run around the world and cause mayhem. Because as long as they are the target, as long as they are the story, they’re not the story.” De Beer slams the very poor performance of National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) boss Shamila Batohi whose term ends in January 2026 – and lists some of the “walking hyenas that are still around here and some of them disgustingly still being leadership”. Meanwhile, he calls on Correctional Services Minister Pieter Groenewald to review the parole of the long-time “terminally ill” Shabir Shaik who “has become a biological miracle and must be captured and put into a museum”. As for the delayed Budget Speech, he urges Finance Minister Enoch Godongwana to introduce cost-cutting measures, “but you have to have nuts to cut”. De Beer also shares details of an hour-and-half long conversation he had with former President Jacob Zuma’s Private Secretary, Isaac Leshona, following his interview with BizNews – and the purges being executed by SG Floyd Shivambu in one faction and Duduzile Zuma in another.
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Highlights from the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
In a dynamic conversation on the BizNews Sunday Show, Neil de Beer discusses a range of current political and societal issues. The conversation opens with Neil’s reflection on his recent visit to Mossel Bay, emphasising South Africa’s natural beauty and the need for better management. He then delves into the controversial issue of Afrikaner groups like AfriForum and Solidariteit, who have faced backlash after their efforts to bring attention to farm murders in the United States. These groups are criticised by South African officials, such as Minister Mchunu, who questions the accuracy of their crime statistics.
The conversation shifts to the challenges of accountability within the South African government, particularly around ministers facing allegations of corruption. Neil expresses frustration with the slow pace of justice and cites several high-profile cases, such as the BOSASA scandal and the Zondo Commission’s findings, which have led to no significant prosecutions. He also criticises the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) under Shamila Batohi, questioning its effectiveness and the lack of consequences for figures like the Guptas, Jacob Zuma, and others.
In terms of party politics, Neil discusses the leadership transition within the Freedom Front Plus, with Corné Mulder taking over from Pieter Groenewald. Mulder, known for his advocacy of Cape Independence, represents a new direction for the party. The conversation concludes with an intriguing development: a private conversation Neil had with former President Jacob Zuma’s secretary, Isaac Lashona, who describes a tense and fractured environment within the ANC and MK, hinting at potential splits within the organisation.
Edited transcript of the interview
Chris Steyn (00:01.895)
Welcome to another Sunday Show with Neil de Beer, BizNews favourite and of course the President of the United Independent Movement. Morning Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:12.366)
Yeah, Chris, a very good morning for me. You can see, obviously, I’m not at my same place. I’m at a beautiful place near Mossel Bay called Dana Baai in a guest house. Listen to this, Chris. Bokmakkierie Gastehuis, owned by a beautiful couple, Ria and Koos, came here for a couple of meetings. But Chris, I want to tell you once again, if you look at Mossel Bay en Hartenbos and the period I was here, again reiterating what a beautiful country we have, that we don’t have to go overseas to see the most beautiful, stunning piece of earth, but we just need to change that bloody management. So yeah, no, I’ve been here a couple of days, received so much love and Chris, BizNews, the Chris and Neil Show, very well known in this part of the world. So blessings to everybody from this area and yeah. A big week passed. Let’s take a look on Chris.
Chris Steyn (01:15.293)
Talk about going overseas. Shall we start with Die Groot Trek to America?
Neil De Beer (01:22.878)
Ai, you know Chris, the narrative this week, obviously we have been bombarded again with the groupings of delegations, everybody except government going to the United States of America because seemingly hulle wil nie hulle daar hê nie.
So Chris, we have moved into an era of a grouping of words, names that when you say it, it is absolutely sparking something in our heritage that we are looking at in a Neanderthal way. I’m going to give you those words. AfriForum. Solidariteit. Solidariteit Beweging. Kallie Kriel. Ernst Roets. Orania, the sparking of the Voortrekker Monument, Steve Hofmeyer en Die Stem. And when you say all of these words, Chris, in one sentence, you are getting a sense that there is a massive scenario of a, I don’t know what it is, a sense of Afrikanerism, Afrikanerdom, Afrikanership in this country that has gone over to 16 Valve, you know, that has gone over to turbo charge. And we have seen now this week the absolute onslaught on Solidariteit and AfriForum in the United States, seeing people on Capitol Hill reporting what they are reporting and then this flurry of attack from South Africa saying, but it’s treason – and they should be charged with treason and take responsibility now for the cancellation of America for ARV and HIV tablets for the people that are now going to die. And that was now humped onto that conclave on saying, you are the cause of that.
And now the latest Chris is that we now hear that it’s not just South Africa and the Afrikaners that are waiting for the imminent return of this delegation to America,
Neil De Beer (03:47.522)
but Minister Mchunu, who now got involved two days ago and said that he is also counting the minutes waiting for this delegation, he names them, AfriForum to come back. And why? It’s because he is interested to understand the stats of crime that was apparently presented by this delegation on farm murders.
In Minister Mchunu’s opinion, is in direct conflict with the police stats issued by his ministry very recently. But I watched him in the press conference, Chris. Hy lek ’n bietjie lippe. You know, there’s a little bit of a facial expression from Mchunu that this is not just about a discrepancy, but this is about: I’m waiting for you.
So there’s the possible first strike on the opinion of government that AfriForum and their conclave have absolutely nothing to do in the United States that this should be done by the official channel.
Chris, if you’re an Afrikaner, if you’re a person of the Boere nation. I am, as you know, ek is ’n Afrikaner. I think Dr. Corné Mulder in a discussion put it the best. He said, as long as this country is a democracy, as long as this country has freedom of expression and association, how do you stop certain segments from going where they want to be democratically to express their position?
Our only problem is this is not going away. This is every single day. It’s blowing up matters on both sides. And I don’t think the government knows at this moment what to do.
So Chris, exciting to see their return, but exciting to see what happens on their return. And I think we need to look at that very closely because that is definitely not going to stop in my opinion.
Chris Steyn (05:59.101)
Another minister who’s very upset with the behaviour of this delegation is one in the Presidency, herself, subject to allegations. But there has been quite a silence on ministers facing allegations.
Neil De Beer (06:16.544)
You Chris, I sometimes think that these ministers that are going through allegations and there are more than 20, 30 of them, they actually beg that people like AfriForum go run around the world and cause mayhem. Because as long as they are the target, as long as they are the story, they’re not the story.
But I wanted to say Chris, that this programme will never stop on a monthly basis to go back and to say that accountability of the executive and specifically people in Cabinet, we will not let them go. Ons gaan hulle nie los nie. Ons is soos ’n pitbull op ’n skyfie van ’n ou se agterbeen. We are not going to stop saying that that exact minister in the Presidency, who is charged by the way to be in Head of Intelligence within this country, is currently under investigation, but is now one of the first people to get onto the massive soapbox and say they guilty and she would like to see a photo of Kallie Kriel and Donald Trump as evidence. Well, Madam, we would like to then while he is taking that kiekie, we would like to see your declaration of not guilty as well on record very soon.
And Chris, that doesn’t just go for her, but it also goes for the other ministers who were blatantly charged, one of them moved from one position of Justice to another position because investigated for possible taking money from VBS. Also silent now. No problem. There is no investigation.
So Chris, we will go back continually to say to Cryil Ramaphosa, whom self needs to still say, is he going to do the Phala Phala clearance or is he not? And sit with them and say, it is easy for you to the pot calling the kettle black when both of you are currently still sitting under a massive cloud and we as the BizNews Show are not going to let you.
Chris Steyn (08:32.317)
Talking about people getting stuck in allegations and it never going any further down the justice system. We’re looking at the retirement in January of the NPA boss. Not exactly with honours, Neil.
Neil De Beer (08:48.822)
No, Chris, know, I got an honourary certificate in law when I was sitting through the saddest and most tragic trial of Oscar Pistorius. Now you will remember how we watched it. Now maybe I’m showing age and era. Chris, did we not sit and watch Barry Roux and Gerrie Nell in that court case? And I remember while we were watching this absolute fight between two, which I must tell you, genius of legal minds going for it, we became lawyers. I remember us sitting around the table and going, dolos directos and dolos eventualis and de facto and prima facie and we became lawyers and everybody said, there’s no prima facie and daars nie dolos and directos nie.
I feel sometimes, Chris, that when you look at where we are in the prosecuting level of this country, that we have no dolos directos, that there is no dolos eventualis outcome, and that de facto, which means factually, it is culminating, Chris, into this new Latin two phrases called et nauseam, in Afrikaans totdat jy will kots.
So here we sitting with et nausea of lists of people that should be in jail. And I’ll start with a couple just to create et nausea for you this morning. Laat ek darem nou nie die enigste arme naar mens is in die land nie. Now here we go Chris. BOSASA. What did we do? We sat there listening to the Watsons
listening to the other gentleman that was in BOSASA delivering scathing evidence after evidence of people receiving meat, cars, cash – and they are in the ANC and worst of it Chris some of them are currently in the Top Six of the ANC and they’ve never been charged. Yet day by day
Neil De Beer (11:13.538)
The NPA sat there and were spoonfed, maak ’n bietjie oop, spoonfed the actual evidence. So, BOSASA. Then tragically, Chris, Gavin Watson dies. And BOSASA, the case, it dies. So that’s one.
The Zondo Commission, Chris. The Zondo Commission cost this country 1,3 billion Rand. 3 years. A multitude of evidence. So much so het ons hulle gedruk that Soekie Cyril popped up probably for the first time and took another oath and said that the ANC is accused number one. That State Capture happened. He agreed. Where are they today? In Davos. France. Ek sien hy is nou weer bietjie in Namibia. You know, there’s a plant that grows from nothing. It’s called the Velvecha miserabilis. I think when he landed the people thought it’s one of those plants. You know, Cyril is under that scrutiny. And then Chris they leak a voice note where Chris, he is always addressing people. Kyk hoe opgewonde raak ek. Where this Cyril guy is sitting in a meeting and he actually says, Chris, that there is an absolute guiltiness of the ANC using State money to campaign for the ANC. He admits it on a voice note. No charges. So, BOSASA, nothing.
Then we went to the Weapons Scandal. The Walking Dead. Now if there is any way that I would like to ask Oom Pieter, Dr. Pieter Groenewald, we’ll talk about him now. I would like to ask the Honourable Minister, do you think it’s possible, Dr. Pieter, that we could do a little bit of a review on a single human being that has become a biological miracle and must be captured and put into a museum? Because we have a walking dead man here called Shabir Shaik, who was told that he is imminently going to die.
Neil De Beer (13:39.192)
So therefore got medical parole after being let go in the Jacob Zuma trial and Chris apparently this man is even well enough to play golf. So what’s he doing there? It was a lie. So I would like to see the revisiting of his parole conditions Dr. Groenewald.
And then Chris, the Guptas. The National Prosecuting Authority seemingly has given up. And if it was a grouping of people that were just in and out of the country and probably committed fraud once or twice, okay, we won’t do the effort. No, no, no. Chris, this was a summary of warthogs that were encapsulated in one family that vreted our fruits of our Treasury as if it’s going to become hakuna matata tomorrow. They ate us to such a state that we didn’t have even a banana left to peel. So now, Chris, where are they? Where are they? Well, they’re not in custody and they’re not in the Republic. So we are knowing that they were hobnobbing around India and then sparking around probably in wetsuits in Dubai, but we couldn’t get them extradited.
Another failure. So I’m sorry when I look at the NPA and I look at Shamila Batohi and I look at her history. Her opening statement when she was appointed by the President was, this is like being thrown into shark infested waters. Well, let me quickly tell you, there’s a saying that goes, when a mongoose falls into a pit of cobras, the only wish you’ve got is that the mongoose remains a mongoose.
Neil De Beer (15:47.114)
So coming to the end of her tenure, Chris, I must sit back and go very, very poor success rate. And I hope that with this new attitude of a GNU, that one of the real showcases they will do is when they appoint a new leader of the NPA, that this person truly will be blind justice, standing with a sword and the scales that will tip in favour of the people of this country to be defended with. These walking hyenas that are still around here and some of them disgustingly still being leadership.
Chris Steyn (16:24.989)
Talking about Minister Groenewald, and he no longer being leader of the Freedom Front. Plus, let’s go to party politics, Neil. How do you see the future of FF Plus now with Corné Mulder leading the party?
Neil De Beer (16:47.15)
Chris, I must tell you I was for a short while of my life part of sport and specifically SA Rugby. And there was always a golden rule that says a great rugby player, but probably Chris, in any form of humanity. There’s a time to come and there’s a time to go. And some people get it right. You know, they leave at the crescendo, they leave at the top, they don’t come back – and then they create that instant legacy of this is who I was.
But then Chris, you get people that don’t go. They just don’t want to go. Like for example, President Museveni in Uganda, who has been the president for probably since Queen Victoria. I don’t think it’s him. I think it’s a puppet. Maar moer hy is now lank daar.
They just don’t want to go. And that is when you tarnish your name. And I think Pieter Groenewald has taken the right decision. In his explanation, he said, number one, I would like to focus on being the minister because he has been asked to stay on by the president because it’s the president’s prerogative. And apparently Cyril asked him to stay on. And secondly, he has parted and given on the baton to the new generation. So if you look at the new chairman and to the people that have taken up, they’re all under 50 years old. So this is a good thing that he said he needs to. And he said 2026, the battle for a municipal election takes much more energy than a national election. So kudos to Dr. Pieter Groenewald.
Neil De Beer (18:54.296)
We tip our hat. I think he has a lot of value still and bring value still to that Ministry. Shabir. And I like him. I’ve always liked him. He is, I told you, like an uncle of mine that I knew, straight forward. There’s no black, there’s no white, there’s no gray in circles, there’s straight up answers. So yeah, good move.
And then Corné Mulder. We steam well. I think we interviewed him this week, Chris. You have had many discussions with him. Different kind of leadership, different style of leadership will always refer to that gentleman as a statesman, because he always, in my impression, well that’s my opinion, has never stepped out of line in the sense of being a gentleman. He’s a statesman, a very astute politician, make no mistake, and if I’m not wrong, now the longest serving member of Parliament in the history of South Africa, three decades and more.
I think, though, the Freedom Front plus their nuance, their policies, their attitude, their future will turn into a slightly different direction. I think under Dr. Mulder, he has always been a person that understands self-rule. He is a huge supporter of the Cape Independence theory. He believes in that. He has always blatantly supported it and that has caused at times rifts between the leadership.
We also know that he doesn’t take well to being dictated to on certain principles and that’s why as the Cape leader then of the Freedom Front Plus we had a lot of ruffling between him and the DA – and I know that very well between him and the leadership that he will not be dictated to and that he is a man that stands on his principles and if he doesn’t get it, you know the other Corné the one that you don’t frequently see pops up and I’ve seen that Corné as well; it’s…
Neil De Beer (21:19.138)
…quite frightening when he becomes that very, very straightforward man. So yeah, a new era for the Freedom Front Plus. And I think Chris, they need stabilising. They need a new path. And undisputedly, there was no other one standing. So he is unopposed. And let’s see where they go forward.
Chris Steyn (21:32.509)
Still on party politics, I had a very interesting interview last week with former president Jacob Zuma’s private secretary, Mr. Isaac Lashona. And subsequently to that interview, he asked to speak to you, We haven’t had a chance to talk about that. What transpired?
Neil De Beer (21:59.8)
Well, firstly, double shot of coffee and nearly killing myself from throttling when I saw the number. Secondly, I really thought to say thank you, I would love to come to Parliament under MK, maar ek is ’n bietjie besig met Chris. So things going through your mind when you see Private Secretary, JZ, Isaac. And I think I called you and I said, this man is not letting me go. What is this? You know, and is this a setup? Because…
Neil De Beer (22:29.528)
…JZ wants to repent. So I said to myself, Nkandla is ’n bietjie ver. And well, Chris, I took the call and one and a half hours with this man and what came out of it.
But Chris, may I say? The fact that he had the trust to call us. Well firstly you and then tell you what’s going on on the inner circle. But then taking it a step further to wanting to talk to me from a MK historic Mandela perspective, I gave him credit for that. I thought, wow, and this is the show Chris. This has become now an attraction to the show that people that want to expose, that people that want to talk, that want, they do. And that is honourable and humbling from my side.
Chris there’s trouble. There’s trouble in that side. There’s trouble in that party. And it’s not just the normal MK, straight, stoot jou uit, bring jou in, gooi jou uit, moer jou da. No, it’s not. This is what I look like in saying a clean up like we had the Night of the Generals, the purging of people. And it seems like, Chris, there are two sides purging at the same time. There’s the Floyd Shivambu side, who is purging people and trying to get rid of their enemies. And then there is Duduzile, Jacob’s daughter, who is purging and trying to remove. And unfortunately, it seems that Isaac…
Neil De Beer (24:25.666)
…who has been for two years the Private Secretary to Jacob Zuma, is purged now as well. So what you now have is a clear understanding that this monstrosity of an entity that was created to be this draconian dark side waiting to take over on nationalism and socialism and communism, sommer elke ism that they can find and get a print t-shirt sponsor, that this is actually now coming into the nitty gritty of inner DNA fight.
And Isaac declared that they’re going to collapse. Now, sure, a person also has to look at from whom it comes. You know, if someone is scorned, if someone is hurt, they will add to a lot of substance. But I got the feeling at this moment that this is to the deepest heart side in MK.
And if there was ever a three to five to six months survival kit that had to be pulled out, this will be it. And there is a scenario where he says that a huge part of MK will break away. And then, Chris, where do they go? Who do they go to? They’ve gone through the wheels. The reason they are at MK level is because they left the ANC. Many left the EFF. In other words, the…
Neil De Beer (25:53.248)
…so-called RET factions. So interesting time.
He has asked for a double up of a coffee. I found him a very intellectual man. I found him an informed man. And there were a lot of things that we spoke about from the days of the Struggle, which he knew about, which I knew about, and a meeting of minds at the end of the day to agree that no matter the party position you are in in this country, that the real end goal was unification and reconciliation.
And it’s weird, Chris, that the people that were revolutionary, people like Isaac are the moderates now. And we are the calm moderates in the middle and looking at these fascist sides of the right and the left and going, really? This is not what we want.
So, so yeah, I think MK has got to now finally face die kasterolie, drink hulle lewensenssens and get ready for a rough ride.
Chris Steyn (27:44.763)
Meanwhile, the nation is on tender hooks for a revised budget next week. Neil, what have you heard?
Neil De Beer (27:53.406)
Ai Chris, you know, we are truly scraping this barrel. You know, Chris, in my days we had the times of ping pong. I don’t know if you remember the game that you used to go and you there were two. There was Pac-Man and there was ping pong. You know, the thing you press and then the ball comes down and clink, clink, clink, clink, clink. That’s the Minister of Finance, hy is die balletjie. And everything he’s trying is ping-ponging and unfortunately the bloody thing tilted.… Now, where does he go first? Well, he goes to raise VAT. But by doing that, he tried to tap money from the poor. Put it there. Klaar. You can now paint this zebra what color you want. It’s coming back black and white. So I’m telling you he tried to suck his deficit money from the poor. And to such a point that his own people said, hey, don’t do that. That’s suicide. So VAT. No, we are not going there.
Chris then decides he’s going to go directly to the opposite side. Wealth Tax. He’s now going to tax the people who are currently in his scenario wealthy, who are by the way the biggest earners, who are by the way probably the biggest company owners, who are the biggest investors, he’s now going to chow them and then take that money from them. This obviously also gets a pushback because not all of the people that are chowable are in the conclave of white minority capital because he’ll have to start with Phala Phala himself first and then Uncle Patrice Motsepe and Tokyo Sexwale and all the other stalwarts. So that wouldn’t rise well with them own because remember they don’t do on themselves which they want to have done on others. So Wealth Tax Chris becomes a ooh.
And now where do they go? Well now it’s rumoured that the State…
Neil De Beer (30:20.546)
…Pension Fund looks lucrative and attractive. Chris, I now understand that the State Pension funds which you know are worth billions in this country are now looking very attractable to Enoch. Well, I think anything that whappers cash -even if it was a ten rand note on a broken cactus of a tequila plant in Mexico would look attractive to Godongwana because he needs money. So at this current moment, he’s like a ping pong ball. He’s hitting the wealth. He wants to do VAT. He’s now, ooh look, pension fund. And that is that is where we are at the barrel and at the scraping of the bottom.
You know, when you do lekker krummel pap, Chris. at the bottom there’s normally a piece that’s burnt. Daar moer julle mekaar, because that’s the most scrumptious. And he’s there now. Hy kraak sy papper. So I don’t know. What we do know, the 12th is coming. It is inevitable. He is having to do it, because if he fails again, yeah, then we are all going to Robben Island, claim it as a holiday resort and pick coconuts, because then it’s gone. Then there’s no more fiscus. So, he has to come up with an idea.
Borrowing money? Taking money is not seemingly the plan, but I’ll leave you with this question, Chris. What happened to our money? Where’s our money? Because every day we hear of another 80 million, another 60 million, another 100 million of over expenditure, wasteful and fruitless loss, theft and looting…
Neil De Beer (32:17.122)
…by the billion a week. And that’s concerning Chris, that we are sitting with a minister who is walking around like Alice in Wonderland, click click who just wants to leave, knowing that this briefcase that he carries into parliament that he’s supposed to carry the bloody budget, is in actual fact a pumpkin ready to explode at 12. So I am telling you, we are in trouble, because that money that is stolen, that money that was looted could actually cover the deficit if he really tried to, but it doesn’t seem that he wants to cut on himself. He doesn’t want to cut the four billion for blue lights and VIP protection. He doesn’t want to cut the housing subsidies. He doesn’t want to cut the salaries of ministers. He doesn’t want to shrink the state.
And that proves Chris, that if you take this man Enoch Godongwana with his hat which probably cost 23,000 rand and you put him in a Shoprite attending queue to look after the people just selling Oros, he’ll bankrupt that as well. So this man has got no business acumen. Yeah, I am now insulting him. Kry vir jou. Because this is what South Africans are thinking. You are stealing, looting, losing, leaking and you are refusing to cut…
Neil De Beer (33:46.914)
…your own. Chris, when you have a business and you are currently spending more than what you get, the first thing the CFO does is he calls the board and he says we have to do cost cutting measures. Wow. What an initiative Enoch, cost cutting measures and cost cutting measures is clear.
Neil De Beer (34:17.654)
Stop the members of parliament from getting lunch, breakfast and supper. Cut it. 400 people, they can go get their own chow and bring their own WeetBix. There’s a hundred million. No more flights. If you want to fly, you have to have that amount or the rest. Hello? You do on Zoom. Cut them. So cut, but you have to have nuts to cut. And as I understand that is a painful scenario. So Chris, I wouldn’t know, I’m not a cat, but I’m telling you right now, if we don’t start cutting the nuts in this country, we are going to have a terrible trifle, because you need good nuts for trifle. So all the best for the 12th. We are going to watch. We are going to sit with anticipation, but we are waiting for a miracle.
Chris Steyn (35:14.663)
Thank you. That was Neil de Beer, the president of the United Independent Movement on another Sunday Show with BizNews and I’m Christine. Thank you, Neil.
Neil De Beer (35:26.392)
Great pleasure, Chris
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