SA’s home-grown global swimming champion Tatjana Smith was personally responsible for bringing home almost half the nation’s total medals won at the last two Olympic games, including both the golds. In this riveting interview, the just-retired 27-year-old reflects on a two-decade journey of commitment and focus, reflecting on what it takes to compete against and beat the best in the world. She shares the passion, patriotism, discipline, faith and dreams that drive her – and some uncanny co-incidences between the places of her triumphs and those of brother-in-law, Springbok captain Siya Kolisi. Tatjana and her husband Joel Smith spoke to BizNews editor Alec Hogg.
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Alec Hogg – 00:12
Well, Tatjana Smith has had a number of firsts in her life, but this is the first recording in our new Hermana studio. Lovely to have you here, Tatjana, and your other half, can’t say I’m the better half, Joel Smith. You just landed back home only the other day from the Olympics. What an experience. Yeah, no, it’s been crazy. It almost doesn’t feel real.
Tatjana Smith – 00:37
Yeah, no, it’s been crazy. It almost doesn’t feel real.I think especially because you train for such a long period and for it to be over in like a week is insane. But yeah, we had a lot of fun, a lot of watching other sports. So that was also quite cool, just taking in the whole experience.
Alec Hogg – 00:57
Just before we go into and there’s a really big story, your own story, your life and so on that we’ll delve into a little deeper. The Olympics this time round to the last time, you were a gold and silver medalist at both events. Yeah. Is it, am I right that it’s only you and Penny Haynes who’ve won gold in both the 100 and the 200 meter breaststroke?
Tatjana Smith – 01:20
Yeah, so Penny was the only one that’s done it in the same Olympics, won gold for the 100 and the 200 at one Olympics and then the next Olympics she won bronze where mine is now, I’ve won gold and silver, but in, well, two Olympics, but different, you know, both events and it flips around from Tokyo to Paris, which is strange because my training is really based on like 200. My main event is the 200, the 100 I normally just do, not for fun, but to kind of see where I am and to get myself ready for the 200. So the main event is actually more the 200. So I don’t know what happened there in Paris.Um, but yeah,
Alec Hogg – 02:05
What, what goes through your mind when you’re swimming, we all watching on television and pulling for you, hopefully you can feel the energy of a nation.
Tatjana Smith – 02:17
No, um, kind of, I think when you’re there, it’s just to let your body do what it’s been training to do for the past years. Um, so it’s really just almost getting that they call it the state of flow. But for me in breaststroke is really about like counting my strokes. Um,I know how many strokes I have to swim, especially in the 200 because it’s a more strategic race. So I really just blank out, try and focus on my race and my strokes. I think it’s very easy to see the others swim and then you get all excited and you try and rush your stroke. And I think that’s what I learned from Tokyo is to really just focus on my own. And I actually in the last 20 meters of the 100 closed my eyes. And I was like just swim and stay calm. And yeah, so when I touched the wall, I was very surprised because obviously won, but yeah, most of the time when I am swimming, I’m just focusing on the things that like works for me and my technique and trying not to look to the other people.
Alec Hogg – 03:22
And Joel, you deal with athletes. You’re an agent, a sports agent.Is this a common thing with athletes that they kind of get into a zone? You said the last hundred meters or sorry, the last part of the hundred meters you you you weren’t there was nothing else going through. So is this a normal thing that one finds?
Joel Smith – 03:44
I don’t work too much in the performance side of things. I think with sports, I hope that they get into the flow. But I think my my dealing in the business space, obviously, with with the athlete and from a commercial point of view. Hope they get into their flow and their conversations when they sit in a podcast or an interview or work with a brand. But I think you’re just one just from watching Tatjana and maybe dealing with athletes in general, I think the ones that are at the top are the ones that really know how to deal with their emotions in those times of pressure. And I think that’s when you find that that state of flow. I wish I was able to get there. I never got there in my career. So I’ve got a massive sort of respect for the ones that understand how that works and can sort of not manipulate themselves but can find the right way of doing things, leading up to specific events to make sure that they peak at the right time. Joining with Tatjana on the sort of build up to the Olympics was insane, incredibly intense and just watching her discipline and watching everything come together on that night was incredible.
And the fact that it was the hundred that she won the golden was just your mind blowing because that wasn’t I mean She was thinking about scratching from the hundred before She can tell you more about that, but I think that’s what made it that’s what made that particular race so special Is that yeah, she didn’t necessarily want to race it once she touched after the 50 It didn’t look like she was gonna win It didn’t look like she was gonna podium and then all of a sudden things just came together and the last 20 meters was yeah I did it spoke for itself
Alec Hogg – 05:17
Well, we’re going to talk about that in some more detail. But as a guy who works with numbers and clearly you do too, 66% of South Africa’s medals at the Olympics in Tokyo were won by your wife. 33% of South Africa’s medals at the Olympics just finished were won by your wife. Percentage wise, that’s like 100% in two of the events. It’s quite an extraordinary achievement.
Joel Smith – 05:46
Yeah, I think, well, yes, it is. It’s incredible. And I think when you are in the Olympic space and dealing with global brands and people that understand swimming as a sport, you start to understand the significance of what that means. I think once you get back to South Africa, maybe we don’t put enough emphasis on the fact that what she’s done is actually incredible on a global stage and to now have become the most decorated South African Olympian, I think speaks for itself.So yeah, we should be celebrating these things. It’s an amazing achievement.
Alec Hogg – 06:24
Well, I hope that the nation does celebrate this for a long time Tatjana, but let’s go back a little, watching that very emotional clip of your coach, Rocco Meiring, where he obviously didn’t know ahead of the Olympics that you were going to retire after the race. He said that he spotted you as a 10-year-old 17 years earlier. How do you get spotted as a 10 year old?
Tatjana Smith – 06:50
For us as swimmers, we always say that breaststroke kind of chooses you. It’s a very technical stroke. So clearly it chose me and Rocco saw me the one time competing in Pretoria. And he saw that I had a very unique technique and he, he felt that, yeah, that he saw some talent in me.
And we were in conversation with him, with my parents, into moving to tax. With my parents’ schedule, they really struggled to get me to swimming. So at that time I was only training about three times a week. So there was a year, I think it was grade seven, that there was just conversation and we didn’t really do anything about it. And in grade eight, the conversation became a bit more of maybe we should be thinking about moving me to a tuck sports school, going into boarding school and being able to get to swimming more often to actually see the potential that rock and ABCs. Because I think every parent believes in their child and always thinks that the best son has the most talent. But when you have someone that has the expertise in the sport say that he sees something, I think made my parents really push this.
I remember having a conversation with them. I was 14 years old. I mean, I had no idea what, how they see talent different to what I enjoy. So they actually asked me, do I want to swim? And I said, no, I want to play netball. And unfortunately, I think they already knew what the answer, but they just said, unfortunately, we’re going to take you to the sports school and you’re just going to try this, the swimming thing out. I cried every single night.
But I think it’s because as a 14 year old, you can’t see that it’s, unfortunately, um, I had no idea what it means from what they saw. I had talent and they saw something in me. They had a dream before I had the dream. And I went to the sports school, went from three times a week to about 10 sessions a week, and I immediately started seeing improvements. I think by the end of my first year, I made my first African team.
Um, and I think that changes you. I think with an individual athlete and as a swimmer, once you make that South African team, something, it’s like a little hookah that bites you. You just want to make it again and you just want to be part of the team, I say again. So, um, and I think as when you’re younger as well, when you start doing well in something, you like, wow, I like this because you do well in it and I’m a very competitive person.
So once I started doing well, I was like, oh, okay, no, I think I like the swimming thing. Um, and yeah, then kind of just grew into that. It was challenging to move to boarding school, moving away from my parents, only getting to see them about 24 hours a week. Um, that was really, really challenging. Um, I think it was challenging for my parents as well, cause my dad could barely afford me to be in that school, but.
Tatjana Smith – 10:00
They believed in my dream so much that they were willing to eat bread behind the doors so that we don’t see them not eating proper meals just to afford, or for me to go to the sports school and now to see everything play out, kind of to have this whole 360 where they were now in Paris with me, just being able to celebrate that moment and the decision I made with retirement and for them to watch my last live race ever again was quite special. But basically what you’re saying, sorry about Rocco, is that, yeah, that’s when I started the journey with Rocco and now 12 years later. And I think that’s why that video really, everyone in that room was crying when Rocco cried because we all got caught off guard.
But it really just shows the relationship between Rocco and I it goes beyond just the pool. It’s really been almost like a dad role to me. I haven’t, I’ve seen Rocco more than I’ve seen my own dad in the past 12 years. So it was kind of, but it’s a sweet moment, but the relationship doesn’t stop there. It’s just a massive part of everything that we’ve built in those 12 years, like obviously it came to an end, but I think for both of us, there was so much that we learned out of this, I think for him to have a swimmer that was able to meddle at Olympics.
He obviously has a lot of swimmers coming up, which is exciting and probably gonna win a lot more medals. But I think it was just that relationship for me was the most important out of the swimming as a coach and swimmer relationship because at the end of the day, I need him to tell me that he thinks I can for me to truly believe that I can.
I think Joel didn’t understand that in the beginning. He said, it didn’t really matter what Rocca. And I said, no, unfortunately, like Rocca comes to me before the race. And he says, listen, basically, I think you can do this. Then I immediately, something switches in my mind. And I think I am absolutely on fire. So, um, so I think that’s the thing I value the most about the relationship with Rocca and I, sorry, is that it’s been genuine. He doesn’t, I think, because he’s not my parents, he won’t lie to me and he would be honest. He would say, he sees me in 2020 going to the Olympics. And 2016, I had like a close call of basically almost going to the Olympics, missing it by one split second. But he always said from the start when I joined him, he never promised me things that were, he always like looked ahead and said like, that’s where our goal is, and not to limit me and think I could.
Couldn’t achieve it then, but he was being real with me, I think saying like, you could go to Olympics as a coach. It means a lot as a swimmer. So it was nice that he was genuine and like, he was honest because I don’t want to coach telling me you could potentially go to the Olympics when actually my times are not showing it. And then the disappointment after is massive. So he never, he will never bullshit you, which I love because.
He would be just straight and honest. And I think that really was the core of our relationship was that trust and knowing that even if he told me like, listen, I can get you to your full potential, but you might never reach Olympics. Obviously no one wants to hear that, but he would be that honest with you and saying that he there’s definitely potential and he wants you to reach your highest, but it might not be Olympics. So he never promises Olympics. He just wants you to reach the best you can.
Alec Hogg – 13:44
That story is first of all, he saw something unique in you or unique in your style. Whereas many coaches like to teach you the way they want things to be. But the other part was he’s South African. Yeah. And we have this perhaps inferiority complex in our country that we must all go and train in America and that America or anywhere else in the world has got better coaches, better facilities, et cetera. Is it still valid. Do you think that if you were talking to Tatjana aged 12, if you could go back in time and you could advise her, would you advise her to take the same path or would it be, no, let’s go to America and perhaps be even greater than you have achieved?
Tatjana Smith – 14:43
Yeah, definitely not. I got a lot of requests from America at that time when I was going to university. Obviously it is a very inviting opportunity because you get free education and it just makes sense because from a financial point of view you don’t have to rely on your parents to pay but unfortunately or fortunately I just never had that desire in me. I’ve always wanted to prove that it can happen in South Africa and I think Rocco’s heart was for it as well so that’s why I think this combo was so massive because we both really wanted to show that even though we might not have the facilities that we don’t need it to achieve great things. And we were able to kind of prove that. So, yeah, there was definitely the chances, but I would never change anything in my journey because I was true to that. It was never like I had a like any feeling of going to America. I never, ever that never crossed my mind. I always wanted to stay.
Um, yeah, and go. And I think what the beauty is of Rocco is he saw me. I wasn’t the best junior. I never got selected for any junior teams, South African junior team. So I never really meddled, um, while nationally on a junior level, but he saw that talent, he didn’t hop on. Um, just when I succeeded, he hopped on from the beginning of the journey and he just wanted me to reach my full potential. Obviously our dream was that my full potential would be Olympics and a gold medal and it happened. But I think that’s the beauty of that is that Rocco is someone that is always willing to learn. When we go to international competitions, you barely see him because he’s always going to other coaches, finding out what has, what have they been doing, learning and bringing his unique thing in, listening to the experience of others.
But what I find very interesting is that they never ask him questions. And that’s very funny because obviously we have two breaststrokers in his squad that make Olympic finals twice in a row now. I’ve been lucky and fortunate enough to medal in that. So, which means he is technically the best one of the best breaststroke coaches in the world, but no one has ever asked him anything.
Alec Hogg – 17:02
Have you watched the Ted Lasso show on Apple? Yes. Jeanette and I are going through it for the second time. And we were watching last night, it was the final episode of the first season. And Ted Lasso played Darts against the horrible Rupert character and beat him at Darts. And he said, well, the funny thing is my father taught me to be curious. But
Many other people who are not curious are judgmental and the people who are judgmental never ask questions. Now I know it was just a show and everything else, but it sounds similar to what you saying about your coach. What I’d love to know though is the commitment. You said 10 sessions. What does that mean?
Tatjana Smith – 17:48
10 sessions was about, so I swam Monday to Saturday. We only had Sundays off and then we have double sessions every day two sessions of swimming on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you have gym, which is strength training in the morning and then swimming in the afternoon. And then Saturday morning, you have your two hour session, which would be our hardest session of the week. And then you have Sunday to recover.
Alec Hogg – 18:22
Sounds like an incredibly punishing schedule.I’m sure you’re glad now, Joel, that Tatiana has retired.
Joel Smith – 18:33
Yeah, it’s been fantastic. I think the big thing for us was the weekends away. Obviously with her training on a Saturday morning, it just limits you from that point of view. But we knew that. We knew that obviously the goal was Paris Olympics and that she would do everything in her power and her sphere of discipline to make sure that she can give it her best shot there. So I think off the back of, you know, the amount of sacrifice that she’s had to make. Yeah, just being able to celebrate her now is just an absolute blessing, I think, for both of us to be able to enjoy this time together after a really, really intense few years for her is amazing for us.
Alec Hogg – 19:55
I’m just thinking about the financial sacrifices as well that the family went through so that Tatjana could train six days a week. There must be many young athletes coming through, maybe people that that you would be representing or wanting to represent. How do they get the support or where would they be even looking for the support that would ensure that if their parents can’t pay for them to go to a special school or or eat bread because they they perhaps can’t even get to that point. Are there any thoughts that you had I guess is a couple because you’ve been through this process very personally
Joel Smith – 20:00
Yeah, I think so. I think and and you know, we speak about the law of the the American universities and that’s the system that they’ve built They’ve bought an ecosystem in the swimming Sphere where from a financial point of view it makes sense It’s financially viable for for those students or those kids or those potentials I think Tatjana’s story is a very unique one because everything had to align perfectly for her to get to the top and to get to the top globally. I think there are many more Tatjana’s that are floating around, excuse the pun, in South Africa, but don’t know that they have that potential and that ability. So I think from and that’s part of the reason why we want to use the sort of influence that she has in the swimming space now is to say, how can we increase the size of the ecosystem? How can we strengthen the system in South Africa to ensure that there are swimmers, that the talented swimmers, the potentials out there have the opportunity to give it a full crack.
Finances is the biggest sort of limiting factor to fully exploit that potential. And it’s a pity because I think the schooling system provides such a brilliant platform. I mean, you go to your former Model C schools and the majority of them have got a Olympic size swimming pool. So and an amazing swimming program. So there’s no reason why we can’t create a system now where that transition is a little bit more fluid.
And in order to do so, I think that the financial backing is really important. So the programs are there. Rocco has proven. Tuks had five of the eight South African Olympic swimmers that went to the Olympics in Paris. So Tuks have an amazing swimming program. It’s there, but now it’s just about creating that financial support for these swimmers. Not everyone is going to be a Tatjana. But there are many other Tatiana’s out there, but they just don’t know that because they haven’t had the opportunity to give it a full crack.
Alec Hogg – 21:51
I was thinking when you’re talking about the influence that Rocca has had on your life. Are you planning to have an influence you personally on the next Tatjana’s, the next kids that are coming through who have got talent?
Tatjana Smith – 22:05
Well, I would definitely love to. I think I have been blessed to bless others. It’s always been in my heart.And I will never, I think from what I’ve achieved, I’ve never, you can see that I’ve never taken on a victim’s mentality. It’s always, it’s been a struggle. There’s a lot of things that have happened and that I wish didn’t happen. There’s a lot of baggage I had to carry that wasn’t my baggage. And that made it really tough. I can’t tell you how I made it through it. I don’t know how I was able to achieve the things I did knowing and going through some of the experiences but I never took on the victim mentality.
I had to prove it for me to now have a space where I can try and change it so that other swimmers and like individual athletes or women in sports don’t have to go through the same thing. It will lighten the burden so much more and you can actually love and enjoy the sport for what it is and have the passion because unfortunately you have to be very passionate about your sport.
Because if you don’t have the financial backing, the only way you’re going to carry on and really give it your all is to have a real love for it. But unfortunately, on the finances side, it takes a lot of that love and the passion away from the sport. So it makes it harder to like find joy in what you are doing. And I always believe a happy swimmer is a fast swimmer. So really, that’s why I’m the most grateful for the support team that I had. I was very fortunate to have people in my team and financially having my parents support me. Um, but a lot of the people don’t have that. And it’s a massive burden to wonder like, how are you going to put food on the table in the first place? How are you going to get the recovery you need? Because all those things are expenses and we don’t get financial support. Um, we, um, as well for me, I only get, um, financial support now through my commercial sponsors.
Um,but it took me an Olympic gold medal and a world record to finally get the support. But can we now support, no matter what the results and not having the pressure of performance and determine how much your support’s going to be? Because that weighed a heavy burden on me because I knew every time I went into the pool, if I didn’t perform, like who was gonna be left behind?
Because, oh who was going to be left to support me so because all I’ve obviously experienced was that the support came when I was at the top. So I’d love for people to have the support in the journey because it’s a process of creating this champion and a lot of people give up because, and a lot of people don’t get that opportunity to reach their base because financial, unfortunately financial things that they struggle with.
Tatjana Smith – 25:04
I would love and I am open, I’m willing to take a seat at the table to help, to have a voice, to speak from experience. I’ve gone through the experience. I’m not in a place of swimming, but I can still speak on behalf of swimmers. It’s much easier for me to stand up for others than to stand up for myself. I struggled to stand up for myself and I think that’s why I just always took it in and dealt with it from internally and never allowed it to affect me.
But some, why add that pressure when the pressure of being at the Olympics is already so big, why have the financial pressure as well? Why can’t we lighten the burden and see a lot more people succeed? Because I think there would be a lot more if they didn’t know, if they didn’t have that financial stress, because I know a lot of team members on my team have a lot of potential and what they’re reaching with the weight that they carrying is It’s mind blowing. So if that wave can just be taken off, they would fly.
Alec Hogg – 26:10
This is a very important point as well for the many members of the business community who are watching this, who do control significant budgets. If you can make an investment in a value proposition and my goodness, if you’re looking for Olympic medals, swimming has to be the value proposition. And yet the point that you make is it’s almost been through personal sacrifice, let alone the sacrifice of practicing six days a week.
I remember the late Robbie Fenton telling me he was a very good tennis player. He said he can’t tell me how many Christmases and birthdays he missed because he was learning how to be one of the best in the world as a junior. I guess that comes as part of the territory, but then when you have to find money and your parents are suffering as a consequence of it, it adds yet another burden. Is there is there much interest though from the corporate? Well, maybe I should ask you this, Joel, is there much interest from the corporate in investing in in swimming in in this sport, which has given us so many gold and other medals at the Olympics?
Joel Smith – 27:16
Yeah, I think I’m grateful to be sitting in a position where I can sort of compare the different sporting codes. We have divisions in rugby, cricket, golf and swimming and swimming is definitely the most neglected, I think, out of all of them, which is a massive pity, because like you said, I think if we if we think about Olympic medals, swimming is the sport that brings home Olympic medals for South Africa.
And we love swimming. We we we are excited by swimming. We we are always if there’s a South African performing at the Olympics, we know that there’s a shot and we there the TV’s on and we’re watching it. So so to carry that support into the swimming space, I don’t think there’s been a positive relationship from that point of view, from a commercial point of view. So, yeah, I think, like I said, I think from from our point of view now, we sitting in a position where Tatiana’s got a voice in the swimming space. I’ve got a bit of a voice in the sporting commercial sporting space. And we would love to pair those together and make sure that moving forward, we create a bigger ecosystem for swimming. We want to see South African swimming succeed. We want to be able to celebrate to the South African swimmers when they get to Olympics, but we want to be able to celebrate them because we were a part of the journey from the beginning. Let’s not be reactive and support them when they get home after they’ve won a medal at the Olympics. Let’s make sure that from the transition of school into the, I think you phrased it nicely now, learning to become a champion. Let’s be with them through that whole journey so that we can all celebrate together and not just sort of give a pat on the back once once they’ve achieved it all on their own..
We often refer to, obviously, the African proverb of Umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu, which means a person is a person through other people, or the philosophy of ubuntu, where we’re very community based. And if that is the truth, then let’s come together as a community and make sure that we supporting South Africans get to the top, not only support them when they’re at the top. So I think that her story has been very interesting, and I think we’re both very passionate about it.
And now it’s just about just using that influence, using the vehicle to ensure that we can start channeling things in the right direction to make sure that there’s a positive impact in the swimming in the South African swimming system and sphere.
Alec Hogg – 28:29
What many South Africans were surprised to hear was that you and your sister are married to the top sportsman and the top sportswoman in South Africa. Now, what are the chances of that as a.If you were a betting man, you’d put many millions to one. But your sister Rachel, who actually introduced the two of you, is married to Siya Kolisi. Is there something in the Smith family that attracts these exceptional human beings?
Tatjana Smith – 30:00
Behind every successful athlete is a Smith.
Joel Smith – 30:04
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Now we’ve heard some, there’ve been some interesting comments that have come out of Tatiana and Siya’s performances in Paris. Homegrown advantage for South Africans. But you’ve been referred to as gold diggers and all of that. So it’s like you take it with a pinch of salt. But no, I think obviously, Rachel and Siya have been in the sporting space for a while, Tatjana has been in the sporting space and our paths crossed because of, I suppose, the different sporting involvement. And yeah, here we are.
Alec Hogg – 30:39
You were telling me before this interview that there’s also an interesting connection with Siya, for where the Olympic pool was.
Tatjana Smith – 30:46
Yeah, it’s actually funny because the Rugby World Cup was in 2019, was in Tokyo, Olympics was in Tokyo. And then again, both won and then in the now in the previous 2023 World Cup and the Olympics was again in the same Paris. And then the next ones are not in the same place. So it was the only two that were exactly in the same like what you call it, location.
But yeah, so it was funny because the swimming pool was built on a rugby field and it happened to be the exact club that Siya joined the racing 92 field. So I ended up swimming on the same field that Siya trains every day or plays.
Alec Hogg – 31:36
So yeah, it’s a very- It’s an extraordinary coincidence, God incident some people would say. I want to talk to you a bit about that.I know that people don’t like moving from the secular area, but I did see in some of the interviews that you do have a faith, you are a person of faith. We know Siya is a person of faith. He certainly isn’t shy about that. Has that helped you in maybe saying centered and focused?
Tatjana Smith – 32:03
I think so, and it’s helped me, I think, become the person I am and the achievements that I’ve reached. Having to carry that, no person can carry that burden by itself, but allowing to give it over to God and allowing His strength to work through me was the only strength I needed to get where I am. I wouldn’t have been able to do it in my own capacity. I don’t think I would have been able to handle it.
And a lot of times you can see it through the emotions that I experienced that I was just completely tired and wanted to quit, but always reminded that there was a bigger reason for why I was doing it and my why was always to go out there, give my best and glorify God by doing that. Whether my best was lost or my best was participating or my best was winning the gold medal, it was always there to glorify Him by giving everything. And when I get chances now on the platform that He’s blessed me with, what can I do to glorify Him more? And I am blessed to bless others.
I always believed. So here I am today in a very different situation that I would have ever seen myself, but the characteristics and the things I’ve went through, he’s prepared me for the next season. He’s prepared me well to take on the next adventure. I would have never seen myself speaking comfortably on interviews. I hate being on stage. I wanna be in the background. I don’t wanna be a loud voice but he’s given me those challenges and he’s pushed me out of my comfort zones for a reason. And he’s made me now be in a place where I can sit comfortably and tell my story.
And hopefully my story would inspire someone else, which ultimately we are here for to give those people hope, give people the experience of his love and allow them to feel that through me. So if that’s what I achieve, then I’m more than happy.
Alec Hogg – 34:04
And the foundation, that’s something to talk about now. Again, off air, you were explaining that the foundation’s intention is twofold. On the one side, it is to help and identify the next Tatjana Smiths, but it’s also to have a bigger impact on South African society in an area that not too many people actually are aware of. Unpack that for us.
Tatjana Smith – 34:28
Yeah, so I, obviously doing swimming, I love the water. And it is perceived that maybe there are a lot of people in South Africa that fear water. And I think it comes from it’s being the second highest unnatural death, cause of death, which means like four people a day in South Africa drown. And it could be water as shallow as like you could actually stand up straight, but because people don’t know how to swim.
Four people a day in South Africa. Yeah, that’s crazy. So that’s on my heart is to help change those statistics and by that, like also allowing them to love the water as much as I do. So I’d love to give those, because I know with learn to swim lessons, it can be quite costly. So just being able to financially provide those lessons for the less fortunate and really trying to start making or giving them the opportunity to discover whether they love water and would want to potentially be a swimmer, maybe the next Tatjana if they say so, but it’s allowing them that because swimming is not a sport that they know, you have your soccer and your general sport, but there’s never been pools or opportunity for them to see if they want to be the next Tatjana. So I really do hope that my foundation can, you know, bring that love for water to them.
Alec Hogg – 36:12
Perhaps if we could just go into a little bit more detail now about the Olympics. Yes. Can you contrast for us Tokyo and Paris?
Tatjana Smith – 36:23
Yeah. Yeah, I think we’re in a very fortunate spot that we did experienced Tokyo, especially being the only Olympics that’s ever experienced it in COVID times and just the restrictions and the isolations and not knowing whether Tokyo was going to happen even two months before Tokyo happened. So really like dealing with those emotions are, are we peaking now? Are we going to the Olympics? Are we not COVID testing? We had to test ourselves every single day and spit in a little tube every single morning and get tested.
There was no, none of our families could come watch. My family ended up just by luck of the draw, buying tickets and it ended up being three tickets for my mom, my dad and my sister for the 200 metre final. I found that out before so I was trying to not think about it too much what’s happening in this 200 breast final. But you’re not having them there was very different to now in Paris.
It had its and it didn’t because on the one side you have your whole family there, Joel and everyone, and I just want to go and join them. So it’s almost like, oh, can the swimming just finish? But really having to shift your focus and, yeah, doing what you came for. But yeah, I think those two differences, the amazing part about the Olympic village is that they really bring in the culture of the country as well. So you get to experience that.
And even though we can’t, we couldn’t leave the village in Tokyo. We got to experience a lot of what Tokyo and what the Japanese culture is all about. And to be amongst other top athletes, I think when you see the Djokovic or the Karolos or Simone Biles, you’re like, wow, okay, this is the Olympics. But to also kind of have a flashback of thinking like you actually made the team and you in the village too, that means you just maybe as good as them. I think we, as South Africans have the inferior mindset of, ooh, we not as good as them. And, but if you’re in that village, you made it and you’re good enough, so you have a chance. So yeah, there was definitely two different experiences, but they’re all both unique in their own way. We can complain about certain things, but that’s not what we’re there for. We’re there to embrace it.
Um, I think the one thing I would love people to understand about the Olympics is I don’t think we as athletes get enough credit for what we have to deal with in that week. There’s a lot of change when we at home, we’re in our comfort zones. We have a lot of controllables. I know when I’m going to eat, what I’m going to eat training time, what time I have to leave and so when you get to the Olympics, everything changes. Now you’re in a new dining hall. You’re sleeping in a new bed. You’re sleeping on cardboard. You see it being on fishnets.
Tatjana Smith – 39:20
Um, don’t have air cons, a lot of walking, different buses, routines. Now you have to do the bus schedule. So for athletes to be able to manage and like adapt to that much change in one week and still be able to perform at the level they do, I think is insane. The fact that you can go out in that race in front of 15,000 people. It might not sound a lot because obviously we fill our rugby stadiums off with the.
15,000. But 15 for us is next level and to be able to manage those emotions, manage everything that you just had to adapt to and still stand on that block and have the confidence to perform. It might not go as well, but having to go out there and giving your best already, I think everyone is a champion at the Olympics because there’s a lot that we have to face in a very short time to put on a performance for the world to have a fun time. It’s crazy because it’s a lot of hard work and sacrifice, but the people that watch, it’s obviously an entertainment and we just wanna watch people do the thing. But there’s a lot behind the scenes that I don’t think we get enough credit for.
Alec Hogg – 40:39
Is there a team, Tatjana, is there a group of people who support you? You’ve mentioned now in quite a bit of detail about the mind and how much you have to deal with during that period at the Olympic Village. Do you have a whole bunch of people who are supporting you? Like I think the Aussies or the Americans would have?
Tatjana Smith – 40:59
I do, I think it’s the people at home and it’s the people in my community, in my village. Then holding onto that sometimes with the unknown, I think it was day three, I was in tears calling Joel and just like having that person that you trust and know has been with you through the journey, just bring you back down and like just calm you down and just remind you exactly why you’re there because sometimes you can get flustered with your emotions. We’re not these robots that know how to regulate and handle all these things. So we need that those relationships and support group that we’ve built for those four years, building to each Olympics and your inner circle is the most important. And I think holding on to that.
That’s the only stability you have in those three weeks are the people that you surround yourself with, the people that have been with you in those four years to remind you that this week can’t break you for what you’ve done in the past four years. And that’s the thing I’ve leaned on the most, especially going towards Paris. I think going into Tokyo, you’re this youngster trying to prove yourself. I think you can still manage it. There’s no expectation going into Paris, you have the whole country expecting you to win, expecting you to do well. Not only that, I have my own expectations. I want to better myself. I’m a very competitive person of nature. So I don’t want to just go there and like not do well. I want to swim the best times. I want to bring out the best in me. Um, so having all that to deal with, um, that I didn’t have in Paris was really challenging, especially on my emotional side and my mental side.
But that’s where I leaned a lot on my inner circle and my village and my community. Because those are the people that walk that journey with you. And I think that’s why we value the, or why we want to bring the commercial side to it. Because we want to walk that journey with them as well, being able to be in full confidence behind the block, knowing that.
All these people have supported me, have seen the bad, the good and the ugly. I think don’t want to just see the good. You must support me through the bad as well, because otherwise on the victory side, I just want to see my family and my village and celebrate with them because you don’t almost want to even celebrate with the other people that haven’t been there because they see the nice parts and the fun part, but they didn’t see the hard parts and the struggles I went through and like for me even not wanting to swim.
go to Paris. So I think everything leads up to the moments of the blocks and for me, it was my community.
Alec Hogg – 43:40
Was that a serious thought, not wanting to go to Paris?
Tatjana Smith – 43:44
Yes. I remember two years ago, I actually went on a church camp. I felt like I really needed to get away and I really needed to figure out and kind of spend time with God and ask him like.
Am I supposed to go to the Olympics? Because I don’t have it in me. I don’t see myself going, I’m over this, I’m tired. Like it’s just too much. I think especially coming back and now, I never thought when they say your life changes after the Olympics, I was like, not mine, I’m a swimmer. Like no one knows swimming in South Africa, but a lot changed and now everyone expects you to do well.
I don’t think anyone sent me over to Paris and thought like, oh, she can just go and participate and we’ll be happy. I think everyone in their hearts expected me to win. And I think the blessing of the 100 for me personally was, I did it, you have your medal. Now I can enjoy the sport for what it is. I can enjoy the moments, have enjoyed with my family and stuff. So it really took off so much, took a whole like mountain off my shoulders. And I think you can see in the 200, it didn’t matter if I came second.
It’s never about the medals, but I could fully just enjoy the whole experience because I didn’t have that, you know.
Alec Hogg – 45:05
Ahead of the Olympics, we spoke with an expert, a swimming expert, and he warned us that it’s very difficult to go to consecutive Olympics and win medals. I then did a little bit of research and all of the great swimmers through the years seem to peak around 22, 23. It doesn’t mean that Mark Spitz, for instance, 22 when he won those seven golds, Michael Phelps was 23 when he won eight golds and so on. And you might then, when outsiders look at it say, well, Tatjana is 27, so she would have peaked maybe three, four years ago. So that’s the best we would have seen of her.
Did you have that in the back of your mind at any time that, hang on, you know, the best of me was back there and this is going to be a toughie?
Tatjana Smith – 45:55
Definitely. And I think that’s the challenging part as any sports person is you want to get to your best times possible. Obviously, for me, it was always trying to swim a PB and I don’t want to be this for myself, this one head one day hit those times once and you never see them again. So the three years building up to Paris, knowing I haven’t. Times I did at nationals getting so close to the times I swam in Tokyo after three years of training harder than you did at Tokyo to only see that you’re coming close to it was already such a massive like what do you say like a relief yeah and a massive achievement for me because it is challenging I think that’s why they separated for four years because to stay the best and to maintain it for four years is really really hard
And I knew that, I knew going into Paris, like a lot of people never, that’s why there’s always new world, like Olympic champions, because to maintain that type of level of swimming for four years is, it’s really tough. So that’s why I think even for the 100, I wasn’t even expecting to meddle, just because I knew the new goals coming in and a lot of the goals, even in the final, I think our final for the 200 breast, only three of us were the same people from Tokyo.
The rest, the other five are brand new swimmers that never made the final. They’re making first finals, making their first Olympic debut. So it was definitely there that obviously with Tokyo, it was the ultimate performance. It was gold. It was a world record. And to top that off, um, was going to be really challenging.
Obviously I never, never believe, not believe in myself, but I wasn’t going to put that pressure on me, but I think that. That was the hard part, is not allowing the pressure and the expectation of the country and the people at home to make me feel that I had to achieve those things. Because, yeah, I had my time in Tokyo and for me to achieve the things I did in Tokyo went way beyond anything I would have ever dreamed. I think you dream of going to the Olympics, but it’s always this unattainable goal.
Um, that you work for and if it doesn’t happen, you know, it was like, you just gave everything, but to be able to achieve it and more and then coming back and like, what now, because I don’t have to be a double Olympic champion. That’s never been part of me. Um, but yeah, I think it just, I think we again, devalue ourselves as athletes. And I never feel like my achievements are so great, but I think it was pretty good that I was able to, yeah go back to back Olympics, win two medals at each Olympics, one two gold and two silver. So yeah.
Alec Hogg – 48:48
It is extraordinary. If you think that of all of the South Africans who’ve been in the Olympics, that you are the one who’s brought more medals than any other. But there’s so much in what we’ve just spoken about Joel. Moving on though, John Cunha who’s a member of the BizNews tribe, kept us fully in touch with what you guys were up to, what Tatjana was up to, and in particular, ahead of the 100 meter, four by 100 meters running relay where the South Africans won the silver medal. Was that a different wife for you to the one that you perhaps had before Tatjana’s exploits?
Joel Smith – 49:32
Yeah, just a shout out to John Cunha and thanks for connecting us. I think he’s an amazing human and one that cares deeply about South Africa. I think a lot of experts that care deeply about South Africa. And I think John showed the possibility of being proactive outside of the country, but connecting the dots in the country that now we are here sitting, having this conversation with you.
So thanks, John. Definitely. I think for Tatjana to get the performance side of things done was a massive relief for her. Obviously a lot went into it. A lot of emotional sort of intensity. I mean, when you’re in the village, I was in the village, I mean, I’ve got the privilege of going in a couple of times, but you can feel the, it’s a very intense environment. Everyone’s there to perform and it’s, yeah, you’re sizing each other up. So it’s an intense environment. So I think for, to have lived there and to get that out of the way and then to just enjoy the Olympics for what it is as a spectator.
And then to be at the right place at the right time to watch the South African guys win that silver in an incredible style in the 4×100 was absolutely incredible. I think for Akane as well, just no, this wasn’t documented, but not many people would know, but we managed to watch the 100 meter final as well. And after Akane came fourth Tatjana was in tears because she had journeyed with him and
I think she knows the pain that he would have felt by not having medaled. I think for him not to have medaled in that race was deeply affected her as well, because she knows she knows what it feels like she’s been there. So, yeah, to be at that 4×100 and to watch Akane win a silver and the rest of the guys. And I mean, there was some youngsters there as well that that we’ll see up, hopefully in the next few years. That was really, really, really special. And to have John there and Brad and the rest of the South African community that were there was just such a special occasion for all of us. And I think that picture after the race was, yeah, just a testament to the moment that we got to share together.
Alec Hogg – 51:32
Did Akane know that you were, you’re going to be there? Did after the race they come and find you?
Tatjana Smith – 51:40
When they walked around with the medals and stuff, they came past. So I think, but I think they were just, I don’t expect him to feel like that’s so cool to, I think they were all over the place.They were just enjoying the celebrations that they were getting. I think they were still in shock of what just happened.
So yeah, to be there and to like be able to witness it and just see him again, like get that medal, even though it might not have been in like, he’s an individual race, I think just meant so much to him.
Alec Hogg – 52:14
So do you, is there a special connection between really top athletes? Um,
Tatjana Smith – 52:22
Yeah, I think so. I think you understand like the hurts it takes when you put in all those time and years and some achieve it and some don’t. I think, yeah, I think Akane’s story is so unique because he’s gone to three Olympics and he’s just missed podium every single time. And this time we were like, OK, it’s Akane’s turn, like he needs to and to miss it again with one split second.
But I think,I think we all knew he, I mean, he smashed the national record and stuff. So he gave his best and he couldn’t have given anything more. And I think, um, just to see the fight in him every single time to come back again in four years to try again and another four years, just that, that heart and the passion he has again, just for the sport that it does, it’s not about the medals, but he just wanted to prove himself and for someone to stand up every single time, such a massive like knock.
And he got knocked down, knocked down, knocked down. And now to end it off by getting that medal, just I think you understand and you can relate to him in the sense of how much it takes to stand up again, how much it takes to pull yourself and like put in the hours again and find the love. Because every time after Olympics, you kind of find a dip and it’s like, what now? And I mean, even from me, from Tokyo to Paris, it was, I achieved the ultimate.
So I came back and I’m like, what now? I don’t, for me, I personally don’t have to go to Paris, but there was a reason I had to go and to try and find that commitment again and like give it all again and see your family sacrifice so much just for you to live this dream and then be able to now stand there and say, thank you, it was all worth it.
I know that they would have found it worth it and they would have been proud. Even if none of, if Connie didn’t win medals or I didn’t win medals, I think our parents will always still just be proud, but just to be able to stand there and say it worked and thank you, like your sacrifice, like it paid off. And I think, yeah.
Alec Hogg – 54:44
From the old Western movies, there’s a story that the pioneers always get the arrows in the back. And clearly the sacrifices that have been made have opened a dam though. They’ve opened a dam and surely with the two of you with your foundation, with the work that you’re doing with young athletes, there’s no question that we can look forward to a brighter future in South Africa. We’ve got a sports minister as well. He’s pretty. Have you met Gayten McKenzie?
Tatjana Smith – 55:08
Yes, he’s incredible.
Alec Hogg – 55:11
He seems to be very passionate and keen to perhaps we should be winning more swimming medals in Australia. There’s no reason why.
Tatjana Smith – 55:22
No, definitely. I mean, the success rate that we have for sending eight swimmers, I think the Australians send 40 swimmers. Um, so of course they’re going to have more medals because they have a lot more swimmers as well, but we only had eight swimmers and the success rate we had with eight swimmers was exceptional.
SoI’m excited to see more to come and have bigger teams and not just in the swimming, but all the other sports across the Olympics for Team South Africa, because, um, yeah, it’s these sports that only get celebrated for, um, every once every four years. Um, but we do the hard work, we do the sacrifices for four years. Um, so I would love to just allow other athletes to experience it. I think just going to the Olympics alone is such a iincredible achievements and if we can be able to create those opportunities for other athletes to just even experience that alone, I think will be amazing.
Alec Hogg – 56:22
We saw you carrying the flag in the closing ceremony and you were, must’ve been on that boat. Afrik de Soed. It confused me terribly why South Africa was second after Greece.
Tatjana Smith – 56:35
We were very grateful. We’re not going to complain. Normally we at the S so we come in last. So when we got to come in, probably like the top 10 countries, yeah, we were very happy. So unfortunately we’re going back into the queue at the next Olympics, because we’re going to be South Africa.
Alec Hogg – 56:52
But contrast for us, the, the emotions that you had in the opening and then carrying the flag at the closing.
Tatjana Smith – 56:59
Yeah, unfortunately it was swimming. We can never attend the opening ceremony. We start racing the morning after. So we unfortunately get to miss the whole opening ceremony and that’s why even we have to be out of the village 48 hours after we compete. Um, so we ended up, we normally then go home. So we missed the opening ceremony. We missed the whole experience. Our Olympic experience is a week in the village, um, which was a bit sad. Um, so that’s why we, we decided to stay on, decided to go and watch other sports to really take this in.
And then I also said I asked him if we can then also join the closing ceremony because we’ve never experienced that. We always get sent home. So it was an amazing experience. I wish I could tell you how it was from the opening ceremony. But just being at the closing ceremony, also being my last Olympics, being the flag bearer was an honor and an amazing way to end of my career, being able to walk out in my green and gold again.
Yeah, just taking it in and I think we sometimes we so rushed in and out that we don’t get the chance to really take it in. So I’m very grateful that Paris allowed me to take everything in.
Alec Hogg – 58:20
And what’s next? Final word.
Joel Smith – 58:24
Yeah, there’s a lot next. I think we spoke about it. I think there are a lot of things we touched on in this conversation, but again, it’s just reflecting on Tatjana’s career, understanding that there’s a deep privilege and responsibility with the way that we deal with things moving forward in terms of the swimming and female and sport aspect to her career.
We would love to see a more successful sort of uptake from a commercial point of view with female athletes in South Africa to see that really elevated. We speak a lot about Banyana Banyana success. Cricket, the women’s team success, the rugby team are now starting to show glimpses of some potential.
So I’d love to see a more engaged sort of business community in those success stories. I think that if I’m not mistaken, the Springbox have something about 33 commercial sponsors. So it’s just like, let’s start to identify other opportunities and look to grow stories as opposed to jump off the back of successful stories. So, yeah, really excited to see how things play out moving forward. And for Tatjana and I, it’s just about identifying that North Star and making sure that what we do.
Opens up opportunities and spaces for other people to experience what she’s experienced and to change the status quo of You know swimming as a sport in South Africa so that we can prevent You know the the horrific statistics of drowning that we see on an annual basis reduce that in some in some way shape or form and to start to increase the Amount of South African swimmers that go to the Olympics.
Alec Hogg – 59:59
I’d love to see that and touch on it I did mention this in one of my premium newsletters. I think we’re all intrigued at what your Christmas dinners must be like with you and Siya and Joel and Rachel and the other family. Do you guys talk sport? Do you talk swimming? Do you talk rugby?
Tatjana Smith – 01:00:18
To be honest, we’ve only been married for less than a year, so we’ve only had one Christmas in between and it was a lone Christmas just with our little family.
I’ll be able to tell you at a different time. But I think when we’re in those spaces and when we’ve come together as a family and we’re all together, I think we just have general conversations. Yeah, it’s nice to speak about sport, but we’re also just human and we want to kind of break away from sports to be able to just spend time as a family. I think it’s still weird to process sometimes when I was still swimming. That’s a long ago.
But I would be like, oh, your Siya coming for a braai. And everyone’s reaction is like, oh, my word, Siya coming for a bribe. And then I’m like, oh yeah, it’s a big deal for everyone else, but he’s just my brother-in-law now. So I think it’s nice to be in that space because I think before when I was on the other side, you do, it’s amazing. You look up to the sporting hero, but to realize that he’s also just human and he’s just a nice guy.
And just to have good conversations, just sometimes also bounds off ideas and bounds off like what his desires are outside in terms of what he feels like he wants to change. And I think they’ve done a lot in the sporting thing. And I think we can just encourage each other to not keep it for ourselves and not be selfish, but now to give back from what we’ve, we’ve been given to give back now to South Africa and those that want to also perform at an elite level.
Alec Hogg – 01:01:54
Tatjana and Joel Smith, thank you for joining us here. I’m Alec Hogg from BizNews.com.
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