ActionSA leader Herman Mashaba is ready to take legal action over social media posts by political economist Phumlani M Majozi and some other commentators. In this interview with BizNews, he says: “…we will honestly get some of the best lawyers to put them in front of the nation to really give us evidence of the nonsense they are promoting of us as black people to really be corrupt, that we don’t have values of hard work.” Mashaba’s party is is also getting ready to bring a motion to get rid of former Johannesburg Mayor turned MMC Kabelo Gwamanda who is currently on special leave following his arrest over allegations of fraud. “I fail to understand why the ANC is actually failing to deal with this Gwamanda, the former mayor. Now they put him as the MMC, someone who actually cheated the poor black people in Soweto.” Furthermore, he says ActionSA is putting pressure on the ANC government to help turn around Johannesburg. He also gives an update on the governance issues in Tshwane where his party now holds the mayoral position. And he hails the return to ActionSA of dozens of formerly disgruntled activists in preparation for the 2026 municipal elections.
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.737)
ActionSA leader Mr. Herman Mashaba is ready to take legal action over social media posts by political commentator Phumlani M Majozi. Mr. Mashaba is here with BizNews now to talk to us about that. Welcome, Sir.
Herman Mashaba (00:18.008)
Good morning, Chris, and really very upset and actually really worried about some of the people being used to promote evil and polarisation of our nation. And in the process, they insult some of us and insult us deeply with people with history and people just take this as a joke and says why is Mashaba worried about this because it’s a fact because they take this to really be a fact.
Chris Steyn (00:55.134)
You are obviously taking great offense at some of the posts he made. I don’t wish to repeat those posts, do you?
Herman Mashaba (01:04.898)
Well, it is honestly embarrassing. It makes me actually angry, Chris, because if this young man being used by evil people who created a mess we’re sitting in for centuries. And I’m saying to him, obviously, his analysis and judgment of black politicians and making such a general statement. And I’m saying, are you using the same standards for white politicians? White politicians who have for centuries used brutality, savage, rape, corruption, you know.
Do we really use such measures? And I think we don’t really have to really get there as a society. I think Phumlani must be very, very careful of allowing himself to really be used. He’s a young black person. And honestly, we must avoid trying to really destroy him. But unfortunately, if there’s people who are behind him, they continue with this, they will leave some of us with no option than to haul him before an open court of law and actually give us evidence of the nonsense he’s talking about.
I’m a politician today. I have recorded three generations of stable families from my grandfather, my father who happened to die when I was two years old. I’ve been married myself for many years and making such general statement.
And I know the white politicians who’ve been rapists for centuries, there’s enough evidence to that effect.
But for Phumlani to allow himself to be used in this manner, it’s actually irresponsible. It’s very dangerous because millions of black people have got evidence.
Herman Mashaba (03:11.604)
I can tell you right now, you know, why I actually even decided to raise this issue about him. I’m sitting on a regular basis with some of my aunts, my grandfather’s brother, who even up to today’s family, we don’t know what the Apartheid government do to him. This is a fact. Every time I have to sit with my gran or with my aunts, who are now in their late 70s, 80s, when they’re still young, the Apartheid government got their father to disappear. So is he now taking those white politicians to be his heroes?
Yes, absolutely. We can’t accept the failures of the ANC government the last 30 years. That’s why some of us are in politics, to ensure that we correct this.
But I think for him, my concern is that him and some few commentators and social media bots, are being used. And one of those days we will honestly get some of the best lawyers to put them in front of the nation to really give us evidence of the nonsense they are promoting of us as black people to really be corrupt, that we don’t have values of hard work. You know what? I don’t need anyone to tell me of the value of hard work. I can speak for myself. I defied the Apartheid government throughout my life and I defied ANC corruption over the last 30 years. So I think, yeah, so it’s going to really be up to him.
If he continues, I’ve already briefed my legal team and they’re very angry themselves to say no, we can’t leave this to really continue. Fortunately enough, we have the courts that we can all bring him in front of the court to give us evidence of the nonsense he is spewing.
Chris Steyn (05:18.907)
So may I take you to Tshwane, please, where there have been discussions with the Gauteng Provincial Treasury on the Metro’s financial turnaround plans. Now, your mayor there has inherited over 11 billion rand in debt. What’s happening?
Herman Mashaba (05:37.987)
Yeah, well, you remember for the last two months, Chris, I was insulted when we tried to really get our government to work with the DA and obviously when they went behind us and we were left with no option. And what’s actually coming out right now, it’s really very quiet worrying.
I’m sure you’re aware even today, the Mayor and his Mayoral Committee are having a press briefing to outline the issues in the city of Tshwane and how they intend addressing them. And these are the things that some of them are actually so damning and so worrying that the Auditor General was giving wrong information and using propaganda to hype up the lies. But, you know, as I’ve always said, the lies have got short legs.
And we need South Africans to really deal with the issue of the 30 years of ANC corruption that have really destroyed our country. But we also have to really deal with many years of the disruption, deliberate and using brutality of years before 1994, how we were disrupted. Black communities were denied opportunities. We were refused opportunities to go to school. You remember very well, HF Verwoerd made it really very clear that black people cannot really be taught certain subjects and given education to really be the best they can be. Are not allowed to attend the best schools. Millions of our people over centuries disrupted, using force, you know.
So these are issues that I think it really need us as South Africans to be sober and avoid generalisation. Let’s work together to deal with this issue. Let’s not use propaganda in our stereotypes because sometimes some of people’s stereotypes, unfortunately, they invoke pain in some of us. Now people calling us ASA; they insist on calling us names.
Herman Mashaba (08:00.546)
We’re not, even when we tell them, I’m not ASA, I’m ActionSA, I’m Mapula, I’m not Rachel. And they insist on that. And obviously they do this deliberately because when you take someone’s identity, you know what to do to them. And they says, no, this is simple. Why worry about these things? People actually don’t realise the pain that they invoke.
But South Africans, you know, we’ve really been forgiving the people and I really hope that we are not going to tolerate further abuses by anyone. Some of us are in a privileged position to really fight this evil. Whether you’re going to deploy other black people to cause the stereotypes to continue, I can assure you and I can assure South Africans and the world it is not going to happen. My race as a black race created by God, that I must be generalised to be corrupt, to not really value hard work, don’t value family. I think honestly I’m not going to allow anyone to insult me and insult the race created by God.
Chris Steyn (09:28.571)
So how’s it going in Gauteng? I mean, in Johannesburg?
Herman Mashaba (09:33.098)
Hi, Johannesburg. Chris, it’s a challenge. As you are aware, we’re not in the administration. We’re only in the legislature. And I think we’re really doing our best to get the ANC to do something about Johannesburg. The City of Johannesburg can be turned around. It’s not as bad as the City of Tshwane. It can really be turned around, but you need the political will.
We put in pressure on the ANC government to do something about this. I mean, one case that is really, you know, for me, I fail to understand why ANC is actually failing to deal with this Gwamanda, the former mayor. Now they put him as the MMC, someone who actually cheated the poor black people in Soweto. But for us as Action SA, we are going to take a motion to the next sitting of council. We’ve already reported this matter to the Integrity Commission. We cannot afford as a nation to have such people to be public representatives. If ANC does not want to fire him as an MMC, but fortunately enough as a political party, we have the right to take this matter through council and let council vote to see if they’re happy, all the counselors are they happy to have someone like that who have actually cheated poor people in Soweto of their hard earned money. We are going to bring a motion in council and these are things that I’m saying to myself and we are saying to the ANC, you do something about it. If not, we’re going to raise it in unapologetic. We’re going to raise this matter in public platforms because South Africa cannot afford any longer after 30 years of misrule, after many years of oppression, we need to really bring a new culture of leadership in our nation.
Chris Steyn (11:38.405)
Meanwhile, sir, some disgruntled ActionSA activists have returned to the party. Tell us about it. Quite, quite dozens.
Herman Mashaba (11:46.926)
Well, it’s really something that, Chris, I have been aware of immediately after the 2021 local government elections when these guys brought some issues to my attention. It is for that reason, if you’ve listened to us even before the elections, when it comes to from 2021, sorry, 2026 going forward, our candidate selection policy is not going to really be based on objective analysis by buddy-buddy kind of relationship. We are going to be judged on delivery of the growth constituencies. And when I investigated this matter personally, discovered that no, the system wasn’t really fair. People who worked at…who actually delivered the numbers are the people that we need to really correct. And you will see in the coming weeks, months, we are going to address this and we are going to address it properly because fortunate enough. And I’ve said, if I make a mistake, I admit it as a leader. The system we used in 2021, well, we had a new party launched under COVID, under pressure, IEC against us from the time we tried to register. We’ve always had a crisis and you can imagine we did not have an opportunity to have interaction because of COVID regulations. So we relied to a large extent on interactions through the visual platforms like this. So you discover issues afterwards. So yes, I’ve addressed them and yeah, more and more of those guys who gave us the numbers in 2021 are coming back home and coming actually to do even better. And I’m glad the communities are really so excited with this tough decision I’ve taken to say this was not really fair and this we need to really correct. Like I did when I discovered this backstabbing in Tshwane. Fortunately enough, Chris, I was not born to be afraid to take decisions.
Herman Mashaba (14:08.854)
Look at now the benefit of what’s happening in Tshwane. Now, 2026 preparations, I can assure South Africans and I can assure ActionSA activists that they will be rewarded on numbers. Show me the numbers. Don’t tell me how nicely you speak. People who are going to go into council, we will only go to council after you’ve delivered the numbers confirmed by the IEC. Those are the people who will be in council. If they need training, I’d rather spend the money to ensure that we give them additional training to ensure that they go and represent the people who voted them into.
Chris Steyn (14:56.603)
Thank you, Sir. That was ActionSA leader Mr. Herman Mashaba speaking to BizNews and I’m Chris Steyn.
Herman Mashaba (15:05.25)
Thank you.
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