Stafford Masie: ‘Beautiful’ Bitcoin – all you want to know but too shy to ask
In this gripping BizNews interview, Crypto guru and entrepreneur Stafford Masie highlights the transformative nature of Bitcoin, likening it to previous technological disruptions. He reflects on Bitcoin's unique attributes—its decentralised, energy-linked, immutable structure—as revolutionary, providing a "true" form of money and a hedge against the limitations of fiat currency. He discusses growing institutional interest, such as BlackRock's ETF, and the potential for nations to adopt Bitcoin as a reserve asset. This underscores Bitcoin's potential to reshape financial systems, despite resistance from traditional economists and regulators. Masie spoke to BizNews editor Alec Hogg.
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Alec Hogg (00:12.572)
Stafford Masie has been telling us for a long time that the world is changing, that financial controls and monetary systems are changing. He's told the business community to read The Bitcoin Standard, The Fiat Standard, and other reference works that offer insight into how the future world might look. He's been a significant investor in Bitcoin for over six years, and today we're going to talk to him about what's happening in the financial field and why.
Alec Hogg (00:40.174)
We'll discuss a lot that's going on in the financial sector.
Alec Hogg (00:48.84)
Stafford, thanks for your time. Maybe you can start by sharing a bit about your background. I know you studied computer science, which might feel like a lifetime ago in Tel Aviv, and then worked in the United States. What drew you into this field and encouraged you to continue with lifelong learning, especially since it's a field that evolves so quickly?
Stafford Masie (01:12.851)
Yeah, it is. When I returned and started working for Telkom, I think we touched on this yesterday. I've been fortunate in my career because, from a technological perspective, I've encountered big, tectonic shifts three or four times. When I was at Telkom, for example, we saw the internet emerging before it had a browser or user interface, and we understood how transformative it would be.
We were running around, telling everyone about the internet's potential, and people scoffed. I remember a competition at Telkom where we sent an email with an attachment. Someone else printed that email, attached it to a pigeon, and sent it from Telkom in Pretoria to someone in Durban. The pigeon got there before the email did!
So, yeah, we were scoffed at, and that's the dilemma when you're deep in technology—trying to explain what's happening while the world is busy with other things. Then, after much shouting about the internet's potential, it finally took off. Later, while working for Novell in Utah, I encountered open-source software. This was software written by people for free.
Stafford Masie (02:34.857)
It was puzzling—why would people buy software created by kids working for free? Even at Novell, a multi-billion-dollar enterprise selling proprietary software, we struggled to comprehend it. It took a while, but eventually, we realized its potential. Today, everything essentially runs on open-source software, freely written by contributors worldwide.
The next shift in my career was when I joined a startup creating complex technology for banks, enabling transactions from devices we invented to interact with banking systems for interbank switching and messaging. Then I encountered Bitcoin, and it initially seemed too simple. I didn't get it. But as time passed, the penny dropped, and I became an advocate. I remember presenting on it at a business conference, where economic analysts struggled to understand it.
The challenge with Bitcoin is that it's tiny in the grand scheme of things—it represents 0.2% of a $900 trillion global economy. Explaining to people who have been immersed in fiat currency systems for generations that it's all flawed is tough. We're essentially saying that everything they know about central banking, inflation, and monetary frameworks is wrong and that this is genuine hard money.
Stafford Masie (05:01.291)
It's hard for people, especially economists, to grasp this. The space around Bitcoin is cluttered with altcoins and NFTs, which distract from Bitcoin's essence. But if you focus, you'll see why I tell the business community to do their homework. I advise people: don't go out and buy Bitcoin impulsively. Instead, study Bitcoin, listen to podcasts, invest hundreds of hours in research, and then decide.
Bitcoin is revolutionary because it educates people about money—what it is, where it comes from, and its history. That's something we never saw before. Just like the internet, Bitcoin is a thin protocol, allowing anyone to participate before corporations or governments. Unlike corporations or countries that need regulatory frameworks, individuals could start buying Bitcoin from day one. That's unprecedented.
Stafford Masie (07:23.127)
For example, the Financial Times recently published a positive article acknowledging Bitcoin's legitimacy. For us, that's significant because Bitcoin isn't merely "money"; it's a mix of psychology, energy, history, and technology. This isn't just about price movements. Bitcoin's proof-of-work protocol ties it uniquely to energy, and while that's criticized, this link is part of its brilliance.
Alec Hogg (09:39.122)
So who wrote that white paper? Do you think it was a group of people, given its complexity, or a super genius? Some people even suggest Elon Musk.
Stafford Masie (09:49.93)
We don't know. Definitely not Elon Musk; he was working on other things. It could be a single person or a group, but that's the beauty of it. Whoever it was, they probably aren't relevant anymore. The system is decentralized, immutable, and sovereign, freeing us from inflationary, central bank-based monetary systems.
Alec Hogg (10:41.624)
Looking back, people once agreed that gold was valuable enough to plunder for. Has Bitcoin reached that tipping point? And if so, when did it arrive?
Stafford Masie (11:27.667)
Yes, I believe so. Just look at the BlackRock ETF for Bitcoin. Within 211 days, it saw $40 billion in inflows—an unprecedented pace. This ETF structure allows corporations to own Bitcoin through shares, which removes complexities around holding Bitcoin directly. I think we'll see more companies add Bitcoin to their balance sheets, similar to MicroStrategy, as fair accounting rules are clarified.
Stafford Masie (13:41.062)
Some countries are also moving toward this model. For example, Bhutan has earned $1 billion through Bitcoin mining using hydroelectric power, and El Salvador has over $500 million in Bitcoin. I think the next big player to watch is the United States. We've seen political figures suggest the U.S. should acquire more Bitcoin as a strategic reserve.
Alec Hogg (14:37.127)
You mean like confiscated Bitcoin?
Stafford Masie (14:37.127)
Exactly. Confiscated Bitcoin from illicit businesses. The U.S. has a significant reserve, over 250,000 Bitcoins, I believe. The question is, what will they do with it? The president's recent statements on supporting Bitcoin innovation suggest a change is coming.
For us, the real shock was Larry Fink, BlackRock's CEO. He went from dismissing Bitcoin as "rat poison" to becoming one of its biggest advocates. When powerful figures and institutions start backing Bitcoin, it signals profound shifts in financial markets. If the Federal Reserve were to adopt Bitcoin as a hard asset, it could drive a rush among nation-states to acquire it, similar to how countries vie for gold and oil.
Alec Hogg (17:18.856)
Stafford, there were times in world history when all currencies were backed by gold, which prevented them from becoming inflationary. Do you think there's a case for fiat currencies being backed by Bitcoin at some point?
Stafford Masie (17:27.492)
Yes.
Stafford Masie (17:39.46)
We believe that and have been saying it for ages. If fiat isn't backed by something, then what is it backed by? The whole fiat system is a lie. Since 1971, when Nixon separated the dollar from the gold standard, it's been based on something esoteric, on political certainty and military might, on central bank power. This is economic slavery. Inflation is slavery.
Bitcoin finally provides a benchmark for a global monetary framework. It gives the world a substrate of true money, of truth. It's not dependent on nation-state power or political beliefs—it's based on math, science, physics, and energy. That's even better than gold. Why? If you took a bar of gold to the airport, they'd confiscate it. If you carried 250,000 rand in a kit bag, they'd take it away. With Bitcoin, you own it outright.
Stafford Masie (19:07.663)
With Bitcoin, you're independent of the fiat system. You can share it instantly with anyone worldwide without an intermediary. This kind of power is hard to comprehend, but it's real, and the common man understands it. Institutions need to wrap their heads around it.
Alec Hogg (19:26.994)
So, similar to any esoteric asset, if enough people believe it has value, then it does—just like gold. If enough people believe gold has value, it becomes valuable. At some point, people are willing to pay $2,500 an ounce for it. You're saying that enough people today believe Bitcoin has value?
Stafford Masie (19:47.79)
Yes, that's how market dynamics work.
Alec Hogg (19:54.864)
Taking it a step further, if governments began embracing it to address inflation, perhaps even linking it to fiat currencies, would that require a substantial revaluation of Bitcoin's price, similar to how the gold standard would impact currencies?
Stafford Masie (19:55.181)
Yes.
Alec Hogg (20:20.508)
There wouldn't be enough gold at current price levels to go around if countries went back to a gold standard. Is there enough Bitcoin to go around? If something as radical as that happened—and we know Trump, for example, is open to radical ideas—what could Bitcoin theoretically be worth?
Stafford Masie (20:33.284)
Good question. Gold is valued at about $16 trillion. If Bitcoin absorbed that, its price could be between $700,000 and $800,000 per coin. But beyond gold, we're looking at a broader $900 trillion market, including real estate and other assets. Even if Bitcoin took just a small percentage from each sector—commercial real estate, metals, collectibles—its value could rise significantly. Right now, the global allocation to Bitcoin is only 0.2%. If it went to just 5%, Bitcoin's value would be much higher.
Alec Hogg (21:30.152)
How do you change the mindset of people? We, as humans, struggle to think exponentially. If you were explaining Bitcoin's future to a 10-year-old, what should his parents be thinking today?
Stafford Masie (22:08.891)
Interestingly, kids get it instantly. The struggle is with people like us because we're trying to understand it through outdated frameworks. When cars were invented, we first tried putting stirrups on them instead of steering wheels. This legacy context limits us. My 24-year-old and 21-year-old don't believe in banks; they find the idea laughable. This generation can't afford a house, and the economic system we've created benefits corporations and the wealthy. Bitcoin resonates more with younger people because it offers freedom, accessibility, and financial autonomy.
Alec Hogg (24:30.082)
Where would you tell a 10-year-old to invest their fiat money for the next 20-30 years?
Stafford Masie (24:30.082)
Honestly, there aren't many good options. Kids today prefer access over ownership. They don't want cars; they want Uber. They don't want a house; they want Airbnb. Bitcoin aligns with this mindset. They want money to move as seamlessly as an email, but the fiat system is too complex and costly for that.
Alec Hogg (25:33.116)
But you were on the Discovery Bank board. Did you leave because of your strong Bitcoin views?
Stafford Masie (25:55.265)
Not exactly. I left a few weeks ago to focus on a new Bitcoin mining project, which could be a conflict of interest if I were still on the board. But feel free to ask me questions, and I'll answer with that "board" hat on.
Alec Hogg (26:31.546)
As a Discovery Bank board member, how would you approach future strategy?
Stafford Masie (26:46.75)
The biggest challenge for South African banks is regulatory. Banks here want to hold crypto assets, but the Reserve Bank and Prudential Authority don't have a framework to allow them to. For regulators, they need to assess and audit these assets, ensuring accountability. We need better education on Bitcoin and crypto assets to help regulators develop these frameworks, enabling banks to safely manage crypto for consumers.
Stafford Masie (29:06.376)
Banks will eventually hold Bitcoin. People want convenience, and many would rather have their bank manage their assets. While Bitcoin enthusiasts love the idea of self-custody, most people don't want the hassle of holding private keys. It's inevitable that banks will get involved in custodial and possibly even balance-sheet uses of Bitcoin. It's a massive opportunity.
Alec Hogg (30:04.754)
So, we buy the story. Those who've been listening to you for years finally say, "Okay, I get it. Thank you very much, Stafford." At last, Elon Musk has obviously put something into Donald Trump's head. He's the most powerful guy in the world; he's a Bitcoin bro. Away they go. Where do you start participating in this asset class?
Stafford Masie (30:30.707)
I think it's simple. First, where do you start? Read. There's a book called The Bitcoin Standard. There are podcasts everywhere. Go listen.
Alec Hogg (30:41.692)
No, no, no. People don't want to read; you know that. They just want to do. So they're saying, "Staff, I trust you. I trust you. I trust you. Where do I start? What ETF do I buy? What share do I buy? What investment do I make just to get my feet wet as a starting point while I'm busy reading?"
Stafford Masie (30:46.578)
Okay, yeah, fair enough.
Stafford Masie (31:03.08)
The easiest way is to go to an exchange like VALR or Luno. Those are the two big exchanges in South Africa. Link it to your bank account, go through the KYC process—this isn't about avoiding taxes or doing funny things. You transfer some money from your bank account into the exchange's wallet, open their app after enrolling, and take a look at Bitcoin, then buy Bitcoin.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, there are all these other crypto assets available, too. You can buy Doge, Solana, Purplecoin, Pinkcoins, etc. But my recommendation to investors is: ignore everything else except Bitcoin. Sure, Doge and Ripple are fascinating, and there's a lot of noise. But my advice is to focus on Bitcoin because all of these other cryptocurrencies are just copies of Bitcoin.
They may have value in time, but we don't know. Their volatility has no real underpinning, so they're not a store of value. For instance, Ripple's founders could make a decision, and your money could be gone tomorrow. With ETH, if Vitalik Buterin makes a change, your money could disappear. But Bitcoin is sovereign and immutable. So, stick to Bitcoin. Focus on understanding it first. Put some money in, watch it, and try taking it off when needed. Learn how to sell it and understand the mechanisms involved.
This is the recommendation I give to the business community. A lot of people have gone to Luno or VALR, opened up wallets, and started playing around. It's incredible to see. It can get you hooked because it's easy and enticing, but you can get distracted quickly. Everyone goes through a phase where they explore Bitcoin, learn the fundamentals, and then get attracted by these shiny things—altcoins. But here's my investment thesis: Bitcoin is where you invest for five years or more. I believe it's the safest asset class in the world. Everything else is just trading. If you want to trade Web3 tokens, go ahead, but Bitcoin is the store of value.
Stafford Masie (33:26.279)
On a philosophical level, I think something big is happening in the world right now. It's been brewing for a while, but now we can start framing it. Two major things are happening: artificial intelligence (AI) and Bitcoin. People are beginning to understand them, and what's fascinating is that AI is doing for humanity what Bitcoin promises to do as well. Bitcoin provides a hard asset, allowing the everyday person to participate in a sovereign, immutable network, freeing them from fiat currency. Meanwhile, AI is increasing efficiency and productivity, allowing us to worry less about jobs.
We're in the year 1900 again, metaphorically, with oxen in fields, with combustion engines, and electricity. AI and Bitcoin together will free up future generations, helping us shift from menial labor to more meaningful pursuits, like culinary arts or creative endeavors. These developments lay the groundwork for our economic freedom, a freedom our parents and grandparents never knew.
AI has the potential to relieve people from jobs that don't fit their skills. It will allow them to focus on things they love that also have economic value. Imagine telling a farmer in 1900 about a "yoga instructor"—they'd think you're crazy. But the potential value in such roles becomes apparent as technology advances.
Stafford Masie (35:44.888)
AI will free us from today's work and create new economic value. And this combination of AI and Bitcoin—when they converge—offers a beautiful future. A future where people can focus on things they love, things that are meaningful, and gain economic rewards. I've never been more excited about the potential these two technologies hold for humanity.
Alec Hogg (36:22.802)
So with Bitcoin, we know what to do—put a thousand rand a month, 10,000 rand a month, whatever you can afford, into a VALR or Luno account. Got it. But with AI, how do you participate? And don't say, "Go read about it," because unfortunately, only about a hundred thousand people in South Africa read regularly. How do you start understanding AI? Do you get a ChatGPT account at $20 a month and start using it as you would Google? Any other practical ideas?
Stafford Masie (37:04.667)
Yes, that's exactly it. Your kids are already doing this. If you have a child in university or school, they're likely using ChatGPT, Claude, or Perplexity. It's a fascinating technology, and it's unique in that it entered households before the enterprise, which is unusual. Historically, tech came to consumers via enterprise tools—like pagers or computers provided by workplaces. But now, individuals are augmenting themselves with AI on the edges of enterprises, bringing it into the workplace.
Stafford Masie (38:00.545)
In enterprises, people are already using AI in their personal lives, which raises issues like IP leakage and cybersecurity. Leaders need to embrace and understand this. However, AI requires significant computing power, and that's concentrated today in companies like Nvidia, Microsoft, Google, and Amazon. They dominate the supply, and creating large AI models is challenging due to these resource constraints.
For individuals, AI is there to help unlock human potential. Every person will soon have an "Einstein" on hand—an AI that's eternally patient, capable of answering questions and helping them grow. And when we connect Africa's next billion people, they'll be connected not just to the internet but to AIs, leading to a transformative human-machine symbiosis. Imagine Starlink allowing rural kids to connect at high speeds and access ChatGPT on their phones. That's an incredible opportunity.
Stafford Masie (40:23.417)
Starlink is a big issue in South Africa today due to resistance from local operators, but once it's widely available, it will bring massive connectivity changes. Soon, your phone will connect directly to low-orbit satellites without a dish, providing up to 500 megabits per second. Imagine what happens when children in rural areas gain access to this, with AI tools like ChatGPT right on their phones. That's where the next wave of innovation will come from.
Alec Hogg (40:30.248)
Hmm.
Stafford Masie (40:51.745)
The real potential isn't in the next Facebook or Twitter—it's in practical solutions, like water purification or agricultural tools. My advice is to ask your kids; they're already using AI to help with their homework. Universities are also grappling with it because students use it extensively. At home, my family and I use it to spark discussions at dinner. We ask questions, challenge it, and learn together.
In the future, you might even have a digital twin that embodies your knowledge, skills, and creativity. Enterprises will value not just individual identity but the combined power of a person and their AI twin. Imagine the productivity boost—most enterprise workers spend 70% of their time just searching for information. An AI could hyper-personalize their roles, freeing up human creativity and innovation.
Stafford Masie (43:16.568)
Of course, AI has challenges, like bias. The economic impact is also significant; AI could lead to wage stagnation and workforce reduction if leaders use it only to cut costs. But AI can help us do what was previously thought impossible. True progress lies in human-machine collaboration, like a grandmaster using AI in chess. It's about achieving things together.
AI and Bitcoin bring economic freedom and new possibilities. I'm genuinely positive and excited about what lies ahead.
Alec Hogg (44:44.85)
Thank you.
Alec Hogg (45:13.64)
Stafford Masie, always a privilege. I'm Alec Hogg from BizNews.com.
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