On the last Sunday Show of 2024, Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), issues a stern warning to Julius Malema, the re-elected President of Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF), over his latest “derogatory, violent and revolutionary speech”: “Ons sal jou moer. We will not allow you to destabilise this beautiful country. Law enforcement, Defence Force and Intelligence, they know they have absolutely our support – and we will have their back.” De Beer once again slams President Cyril Ramaphosa’s handling of the BELA Act. However, he has praise for three African National Congress (ANC) Ministers: Finance Minister Enoch Godongwana, Electricity Minister Kgosientsho Ramokgopa, and Police Minister Senzo Mchunu. He also hails the work of Democratic Alliance (DA) Home Affairs Minister Leon Schreiber. Furthermore, De Beer speaks about the “Green Communists” in the ANC, sketches two options for the future of South Africa’s struggling SOEs, and explains why he regards Bitcoin as an “emotional currency”.
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Transcript of the interview
___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:00.000)
Welcome to the last Sunday Show of 2024 with Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome back, Neil.
Neil de Beer (00:12.322)
Now, Chris, good to be back on Terra Firma, back in my own country. I spent the week in Madagascar. You know, Chris, they sometimes say a prophet isn’t known in his own country. This came up to me because it was unbelievable to be invited by the Government of Madagascar as a person that has been there. In my previous life, very few people know what I did before politics.
I used to be in international infrastructure investment across the world. So, one of the places I started before COVID was Madagascar, and they wanted me back. But what a country, what potential, what friendly people. So, I’m coming back, yes, it’s good, but there’s so much potential in the world. But here I am on our show. Hello, everybody, we are safe.
Chris Steyn (01:03.478)
I hope you alerted them to the Sunday Show; that they’ll be watching next year.
Neil de Beer (01:08.945)
Yes, absolutely. And I said I would say to the people of Madagascar, “Salamat” and “Bonjour,” and we miss and love you in South Africa. We are your brothers and sisters. We are your neighbours, and we should take care of you as well. So, that’s my message.
Chris Steyn (01:27.254)
Okay, Neil, back home. Julius Malema has been re-elected unopposed as the President of the Economic Freedom Fighters. What did you make of his emotional speech at the National People’s Assembly?
Neil de Beer (01:40.002)
Chris, that’s like saying I’m surprised Idi Amin was elected. Stalin rose again. Lenin is the President. He’s a dictator. He’s a despot. He’s a narcissist. He’s a red jelly-tot. That’s what he is. And I would like to insult him in many ways, but that is not formal and would not suit my demeanor.
This man is a danger to this country now more than he ever was. Why? Because previously this lunatic used to come up with utter rhetoric of violence, of revolution, talking about commanders-in-chief and spilling blood. Not only did he do that, he’s still currently in a court case for walking onto a stage and firing off a firearm. Now, if it was a blank, if it was a replica, or if it was a real gun, this is not appropriate for a person that is a so-called parliamentarian. If I must tell you the number of times he has broken the Code of Ethics of Parliament, you couldn’t put it on a piece of paper.
The fact that the IEC, this dormant, biased, so-called regulator, does not charge him for inciting violence, that the Human Rights Commission doesn’t take him up for the words he said at this conference, it’s beyond me. State Security should be at his door this morning. But because he is Julius Jelly-tot Malema, the people are scared of him.
Now, what he said at this conference is for one purpose and one purpose only: to regain relevance. Chris, that’s it. He wanted to make such a derogatory, violent, and revolutionary speech so that he could have one up on MK. This is it. This is the truth. This is the fact.
Neil de Beer (04:06.860)
Unopposed. Another person hugely absent.
Dr. Ndlozi. Refusing to answer the questions at the media briefing afterwards. Another one, the spokesperson also not there.
All of the people, basically in the top structure, unopposed. This is a dictator.
Now, solution. The EFF is going to die a slow, unannounced death in politics. Because I would like to say three things. Chris, I know him. I knew him when he was the President of the Youth League at Luthuli House. I know him because, as the world probably knows by now, when he and his jelly tots came to Brackenfell, let me quickly tell you about the nemesis of the EFF. Brackenfell in Cape Town is the Bermuda Triangle of the EFF. Because I went there when his people wanted to storm that school, I stood there, and he ran away. So, that’s number two. They’re not very good in combat. And when the police unleashed on them, I think they left their buses and they ran for the Waterfront. So, when you speak about revolution, when you speak about violence and blood, jy ken dit nie (you don’t know it). And thirdly, Chris, it’s unacceptable because the majority, black and white, coloured and Indian, in other words, South Africans, will not stand for it. I tell you this now, we will not stand by while a group of people want to cause disruption, mayhem, and absolute violence.
I’ll tell you, he must count his words. He must be careful because this country, Chris, in conclusion, is more unified than what that Jelly-tot Malema thinks. I’m telling you, this country might be divided in many ways, but when pushed, when challenged, domestically or internationally, dan wil ek nou vir Julius se in Afrikaans: Ons sal jou moer (then I will now say to Julius in Afrikaans: We will kick your ass). We will not allow you…
Read more: De Beer: Mashatile’s diamond; Helen’s nuclear button; Cyril’s missing “rugby balls”
Neil de Beer (06:33.400)
…to destabilise this beautiful country. Law enforcement, the Defence Force, and Intelligence, they know they have absolutely our support, and we will have their back. So, write him off, let him blah blah, he had his moment, the end is nigh.
Chris Steyn (06:58.21)
Neil, tonight is the MKP’s first anniversary gala dinner. According to Secretary-General Floyd Shivambu, the party has received an offer of two million rand to sit at former President Jacob Zuma’s table. And apparently, that was not the only offer received.
Neil de Beer (07:20.034)
Yeah, people pay a lot of money to go to an aquarium. They pay a lot of money to go to a circus or to a zoo. You know, sometimes you pay five thousand rand to go see a panda. This is MK. MK is putting a lot of money in. They are busing in people, the hungry, to a gala event.
So, you know, there are just certain people, Chris, who can’t help themselves. They need to be relevant. They need to have every win they can get. You know, I had a friend who celebrated the growth of his first lemon tree, then his baby, then an anniversary, and then bought a motorbike. He invited 30 people. We came there, not because we liked motorbikes, but because we wanted the steak and mushroom sauce. So, this is the same thing. They’re one year old, they’re not. I think they’re two years old, two years and three months old. I think they’re lying. They’re not one year old. But let them have their moment. I mean, let them have their celebration. They’re apparently busing in thousands of people for the celebration. I hope they’re not wearing camouflage, because then we won’t be able to see the crowds.
Chris Steyn (08:37.506)
Hmm. It’s the rally this afternoon and the gala dinner tonight. Neil, now, it was D-Day for the BELA Act on Friday, and Deputy President Paul Mashatile says that the GNU clearing house mechanism has submitted its report to President Cyril Ramaphosa. When do you think we can expect him to act? Is he going to sign it tomorrow, December 16th?
Neil de Beer (09:04.142)
Op Geloftedag. Jo, another gelofte. Nee, daar is net een gelofte. Chris, can you imagine, and this is the typical president that we’ve got. Can you imagine making him the commander-in-chief that he is and to make a decision on war and when to attack? So, he agrees…
Neil de Beer (09:31.222)
…as the real Commander-in-Chief, because he is in this country, he is attacking on the morning of the 13th. He summons the generals, he issues the statement, he puts out the declaration on the morning of the 13th. Undoubtedly, those that are opposed, those that are not, by the 13th, we are attacking. And then the 13th comes, and then he goes, “No, no, no, no. You know what? We have to still look if the attack is necessary, and maybe consider a couple of other things suggested, not to attack.” What a disaster. Again, Chris, what an embarrassment for a person who sits there and cannot make a clear decision. You know, Angela Merkel, they caught her on various occasions doing this when she spoke to a politician. This is her facial expression. They caught her doing that to Putin while he was saying things, and she did this. They actually told her, apparently, “Don’t do that,” but she couldn’t help it. So, when I saw the BELA Bill 13 postponed still, no, Chris, they’re fighting, they’re trying to get both sides okay. Not a bad thing to test the GNU.
I know it’s a bad thing that Clause Four and Five are ridiculous, but now I hear from the rumblings underground that they are trying to negotiate not to implement Four and Five, but apparently, the carrot to the GNU that is against it—this is just apparently—is to say that should certain of the Four and Five implications come down to a specific scenario, they will be able to go back to this clearing room or test it in court. So, I think that’s where we are today. In other words, clauses on clauses, Chris. Now, what that will do in politics, it will allow Cyril to tell the people, specifically the current Prime Minister. You know we have a prime minister in this country. Lesufi. It will allow Prime Minister Lesufi to save face and say to the radicals, “But Four and Five is here,” but under each one of those, put 40 addendums. That is the win I think they are negotiating. I don’t think BizNews, Neil, and Chris are wrong on this.
Chris Steyn (12:18.244)
Well, Neil, as we are ending this year with the Government of National Unity, which three African National Congress ministers have emerged as the most forward-thinking?
Neil de Beer (12:34.562)
You know, Chris, it was actually easy. You know, we’re quick to jump and say the DA ministers because you can physically see John climbing in, you can see Sivive, you can see Dean MacPherson, you can see the Deputy Minister of Finance. They are climbing in. We’ll talk now about Border and Home Affairs. But we don’t recognize the ANC side. And the reason, may I say, in my opinion, is that, sorry, the DA is just better at marketing themselves. The DA comes from a machine where they propagate and market themselves well; on everything, you can see on social media. They have a machine behind them that says, “Dean did this, Leon did this, John Steenhuisen did this…”
So, I don’t think the ANC side has that, and they better themselves because there are three ministers that I didn’t even have to think about. Number one is Ramakgopa. We cannot deny that the Minister of Electricity has had an influence, maybe not to stop load shedding, but to look at people that are in management, like Mteto Nyati, to get the right management in place and to not stop working. So, remember, he’s a political appointment, but he speaks the right talk, he doesn’t go overboard, and we’ve not had load shedding now for… we are close to a year now, we’re getting there. So, I definitely think an accolade goes to him.
I must tell you, the Minister of Finance is impressive as well, Gondongwana, silent, does his work, and Chris, I’ll tell you something, he’s very attentive to two things, as per his inner circle. One, he does not like the debt burden of this country. This is a good thing. He doesn’t want to borrow more and more. And secondly, he listens to industry. I will use an example, which he did: the Sugar Tax.
Neil De Beer (14:51.746)
Now, you know, sugar, tobacco, and alcohol – that’s called sin tax. Because they say you shouldn’t be drinking, smoking, or eating sweets. So it’s easy for the government to get money from those kinds of things. Also, fuel and roads, because we have no choice. We have to use them – and VAT. But this year, the sugar industry, which includes companies like Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and others, said to him, “Please, Minister, we cannot have another increase. We are going to put people out of work.” And I understand that he contemplated and that he listened. So, I think he’s probably one of the most stable ministers we have, and an accolade to him.
And then lastly, an accolade to Minister Mchunu, the Minister of Police. I think he has done his job. He has definitely done better than Bheki Stoeltjie Tafeltjie Cele. And you can see it. In other words, you can see the impact. He’s getting in there, taking charge. But one thing about Minister Mchunu – he’s a listener, apparently. He listens. The other one couldn’t.
So, I think those three – there are many more. I mean, silently within corporate governance, there’s work being done, etc. But if you ask me for the top three, those are them.
Chris Steyn (16:20.996)
Well, when it comes to Democratic Alliance ministers, I know you are particularly impressed with the work of Dr. Leon Schreiber at Home Affairs.
Neil De Beer (16:31.01)
Now I get accused – he’s one of my favourites on the border. People can see it in the comments: “Join the DA.” I’m impressed with Leon because I worked with him firstly at the Multi-Party Charter. In other words, I don’t know him from TV. I worked for a year and a half with Leon Schreiber. I worked a year and a half with John Steenhuisen. So I’m very sorry – I don’t make a political statement. It’s personal.
So Leon, as a person, is an absolute structurer – someone who likes structure, who likes to implement, and by the way, he has a background in that. So when he was given the portfolio for Borders and Home Affairs, I thought, “Eureka! This is the right guy.” This is a guy who doesn’t do anything but roll up his sleeves. Remember, Chris, he was the senior advisor to John Steenhuisen. He was an advisor. Now, he becomes a minister and can implement that advice in any strategy.
This man has done what other ministers, unfortunately in the ANC, couldn’t do in 15 to 20 years. He immediately – I mean, I don’t know if you saw, last week, he walked into the main office of Home Affairs with a Christmas hat to celebrate another unbelievable achievement. They’ve, in four or five months, cleared all visa application backlogs. Now, sorry – yeah, the staff did it, but it’s leadership. Leadership. If you don’t have the political will, if you don’t have the leadership skill, you can’t uplift. They didn’t change staff. They just had a leader who came in and changed the attitude of the staff.
He went to the border the other day, and he’s brought in technology, which I’ve been screaming for – drones. So you don’t have to build a wall and drain a swamp. You know, Donald Trump – build a wall, drain a swamp.
Neil De Beer (18:45.676)
We would like to do the same thing, but the swamp – there’s no water to pump, and electricity to drain, and they’ve stolen the bricks of our wall. Guess what? We are now just going to use drone technology. We’re going to use IT. And this is an addition. This is adding value to protect our borders. And I see his hands-on. He gets stuck in – and I like it. So it’s not about being political, because, you know, I have my own ideology, which I don’t push. I am just who I am. But Leon Schreiber – hy skop gat, he’s just kicking ass. So we need to support that man.
Chris Steyn (19:24.91)
Neil, what do you think the chances are of a National State Enterprises Bill making it through parliament, and all the SOEs ending up in one giant state company?
Neil De Beer (19:37.07)
Well, they have to, because they’ve absolutely, for 30 years, been falling apart. Amper sê ek iets. It’s just been shocking. It’s been SAA, Denel, Spoornet, Portnet, Staalnet, Yskor, Eskom, SAA, Denel – all of those were accolades to this country. All of those were our jewels in the basket. SAA, every year, won a world award for best airline. Denel, when I was around, was responsible for the most prolific inventions, like the Rooivalk, night vision scopes. We were, in those days, the leaders – sorry – in missile technology, guidance systems, and tracking devices for missiles. And then the Guptas sold that technology to the Middle East. They sold it. They ripped it apart.
We used to have the Ratel, we used to have the SAML, we used to have the Kasspir. We used to make the G5 and 6 cannons. This is Denel. This is Armscor. It’s all gone.
So maybe there are only two choices, because SAA last week declared it made its first profit since 2012. Okay, so it looks like management is improving, because we need SAA. People think it’s just for aircraft. No. When you park an SAA airplane in Washington DC, it’s our embassy. It’s our flag. It’s our name. And that’s more important to us – to have presence. Yeah, it’s a lot of money, but get it right, and we can achieve both.
So, Carrier, and then Denel – they are now saying they are looking at new technologies, bringing back some old people, and they’re going to try and rebuild that system.
I’m afraid Portnet – the roads, the railway, and the harbours – there’s a massive problem there. So maybe, Chris, only two choices:
Neil De Beer (22:03.416)
Sell them off and privatise, or put them in one area, one entity, but get politicians the hell out of there. Employ a lead businessman – a businessman, not a politician. Get them out, and let him be the group chief executive. And then, in each one of those, appoint an MD and recover. I’m sorry, those are the only two options we’ve got.
Chris Steyn (22:36.3)
What percentage of the ANC leadership, Neil, do you think actually believes in free markets and capitalism?
Neil De Beer (22:45.152)
All of them, as long as they can put it in their pocket. They have no idea where it comes from. They just get it. You know, they declared themselves communists. They’re not communists. They’re Green Communists. Chris, first time in the world that word on BizNews: Green Communist. What is a Green Communist? Well, a Red Communist is also a lie because a Red Communist believes that everybody should share and be equal, except some people need to be more equal than others. Like they would let the people grovel for potatoes and have vodka and caviar in the Kremlin. That’s not communism, but anyway, George Orwell, Animal Farm. But a Green Communist is a person who also believes in communist principles—everybody should be equal, everybody should share—but they definitely know the color of the US dollar. They want to be green. Chris, there is no communistic, socialistic, or nationalistic government in the world. Hulle gat. Hulle lieg. Because not even a person in Cuba, Havana, was equal. No one in Russia was equal. No one in China was equal. So, utter rubbish. Hulle slaap lekker, en ander mense moet vir hulle die vere pluk vir hulle kussings.
I don’t think anyone in the ANC of today believes in that. They believe in money. Why do you think the SACP wants to leave? Because they recognize that all the ANC members are absolutely capitalists. Louis Vuitton.
Chris Steyn (24:38.348)
Neil, I wonder, do you buy Bitcoin? What do you think of Bitcoin? I’m just thinking about Stafford Masie and Rob Hersov’s initiative to get South Africa to adopt Bitcoin as a strategic reserve currency.
Neil De Beer (24:56.71)
No, I’m not in Bitcoin. I put every cent that I have in something that is, sorry, tangible and real. It’s called gold.
Bitcoin, as far as I am concerned—and please, I’m not clever, I’m not Winston Churchill or Nelson Mandela—someone asked me the other day why there’s an empty hook on my wall. Is that a meaning? He probably thought that it is a sign of emptiness. No, I was just blocking some of my pictures from my old office. But he buzzed back, many other icons.
But I come from an era where you have to have something valued—whether it’s diamonds, silver, or gold. But gold is the oldest currency in the world. So I can only tell you what I’m saying: It’s an emotional currency. Sorry, Bitcoin is an emotional currency as far as Neil De Beer is concerned.
Today, Bitcoin… It ran from $90,000 at the beginning of the year for Bitcoin. This morning, it’s $101,668,000 USD. So, for a Bitcoin in rand, one Bitcoin in rand, you’re paying one million eight hundred and sixteen thousand rand. But Chris, valued on what? I’ll tell you: Elon Musk.
Neil De Beer (26:43.096)
Donald Trump, yes, Rob Hersov, Mr. Massie. These are people that are big in industry. Sorry, these are influencers, Chris, at a level I am not. So today, if you want to become a Bitcoin investor, you have to have capital, or you have to have some small capital to buy a share in a Bitcoin. So it’s become a super-wealth, super-strategy. But my question is: When Elon Musk said, “I’m going into Bitcoin,” bang! Donald Trump, bang! So they are big people who can influence—not the economy, but the worth of a currency.
So I’m not against it, because this is AI, this is progress. Chris, we went from gold to vegetables: aartappel, choppie. We went to a free market. We went to gold coins. We went to money. And now we’re going to artificial currency. Chris, we’ve already been in artificial currency the day they took the chequebook—onthou jy?—away. And they gave you a card. I remember as a laaitie, I got a card, and I went, “Gits, is daar geld in die ding?” This was the mutation of money.
And more and more, Chris, you can see people are actually refusing cash. Now, a lot of people say it’s because it’s dangerous. No, sir, no, madam. Across the world, I’ve just been to Berlin, and they said the same thing: Card. So they’re forcing us ultimately out of a cashless society. And I think your cryptocurrencies, your Bitcoin currencies, could be the future. But for me, not now. And the more I wait, yes, the more it’s going to be difficult to get my life into currency. But for the wealthy… Sorry, I have a bit of a chest. For the wealthy people out there, you can risk it. You can do it. Go for it. Be the pioneers. Maar vir Albertus Cornelius De Beer, I’m not in that league.
Chris Steyn (29:04.238)
Neil, as today is the last Sunday Show of the year, what would you like to say to your army of BizNews supporters?
Neil De Beer (29:18.466)
Just three things.
Thank you so much for building this show with Chris and me, a normal old man and a stunning lady who just give our heartfelt opinions. It’s easy to tell our story because it’s only the truth. You must remember, a lie—and we’re not scared. We get threatened on the show. We get told to shut up. Never.
So, for you, thank you for making this show possible and taking us from 20,000 views a week to more than 100,000. It means our message is getting through.
Secondly, do not give up on the future of this country. Do not become negative about the rubbish that happens every day. Although we do a show of exposé, just remember, we do it because we want to change this country. This country cannot be changed by politicians. This country can be changed by you. So, please, every day, make a change.
And lastly, I want to thank Chris. I want to thank Alec. I want to thank the people who are unseen, the people who now have to, on a Sunday, edit and produce this show, the wonderful team behind Chris. I want to thank them.
Thank my God Almighty and all the well-wishers. I cannot say in words, thank you enough. So, !Ke e:xarra //ke, !Ke e:xarra //ke. This is the thing I leave you with on your money, on the South African Coat of Arms.
Neil De Beer (31:16.952)
You’ll see funny little letters at the bottom. It is Khoisan. It is, in actual fact, the South African national slogan. It replaced the Latin ex unitatum viris, which used to mean “unity in strength.” The new one is !Ke e:xarra //ke. And what does that mean? Eenheid in diversiteit. Unity in diversity. Let’s be that.
Let’s fight for that, and God bless you. Thanks, Chris. So thank you very much, and God bless you, Chris. Have a nice Christmas and New Year for those who celebrate it.
Chris Steyn (31:59.108)
Thank you. That was Neil de Beer, the President of United Independent Movement, on the Sunday show—the last Sunday show for 2024 with BizNews. And I am Chris Steyn.
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