In the latest edition of the Sunday Show on BizNews, Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement, speaks about the “multitude of racial explosions” that has hit South Africa in the wake of Afrikaner farmers being offered refugee status in the US by President Donald Trump, who has also cut off aid to the country. “We have really this week…hit the lowest of the low in 30 years,” De Beer says. He lists some of the “litany of small detonations on a string of pearls of a big dynamite bomb” from Trump: race-based laws, BEE, the BELA and EWC acts and the NHI. De Beer dissects the roles played by the African National Congress, AfriForum, and the Democratic Alliance – and says the shots the DA has been taking the past week, he has “never seen in my lifetime …in politics”. Slamming the “compromised” Government of National Unity (GNU), De Beer charges: “…it seems that in the GNU, you’d rather be popular than take the bloody right decision for 60 million people”. He also gives his take on President Cyril Ramaphosa’s “unfortunate dud” SONA speech; lists those politicians hoping to succeed him, but warns: “…it’s a shocking shame that this country has run out of statesmen or stateswomen”. He concludes with this emotional plea: “I beg the leaders of this country to stop your absolute hogwash, to remember why you are there and to do anything necessary – even if it means that you’ve got to take the knee…but save this country…”
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Edited transcript of the interview
Chris Steyn (00:01.779)
Welcome to the Sunday Show with Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:10.158)
Chris, thank you, I feel welcome. But after a week of SONA, a week of America, a week of skullduggery, a person can only hope to find something to start the show with that gives us just a glimmer of hope—and I have. Well done! Stillknocks Dricus du Plessis—and still the champion of the world! So yes, I didn’t have a Springbok rugby team to give an accolade, but last night or early this morning, our MMA fighter, Dricus, won his fight for the second time and has now reclaimed his belts. So, South African good news today.
People might say that after wearing a t-shirt supporting Trump, this time’s victory is a little bit quiet. To hell with that. He is a South African. He went to battle, and he won. So I think, on our behalf, Chris—well done! A South African showing who we are at the end of the day. So, Dricus, well done. En hulle weet nou nog nie wat ons weet nie.
Chris Steyn (01:29.449)
Talking about Trump, the US President has unleashed a storm by offering refugee status to Afrikaner farmers and their families. Have you been following the comments on social media?
Neil De Beer (01:44.952)
Chris, this is a serious matter. I don’t think we can just dismiss Trump’s offer of an abode for people who feel oppressed—Afrikaners who no longer see it fit to stay in this country. But I must tell you, if you really are an Afrikaner—’n Afrikaanse—I would be frowning and saying, thank you, baie dankie, maar nee dankie. I will stay in my country. That is what it’s about.
So, Chris, let’s unravel what happened in one week and how South Africa did not go into the dustbin. It has been a myriad of communication failures, absolute blame-shifting, and everybody trying to cover their backside. At the end of the day, no one in this country is stepping up, rolling up their sleeves, putting on their best suits, and getting the hell to America to address the issue properly.
Now, when you have a problem—and there is a problem—it’s like having cancer, Chris. To deny that you have cancer, to talk around cancer, at the end of the day, kills you of cancer.
This is where I would like to start my five minutes of absolute irate speed-dumping about the pathetic state of leadership in this country. It has been a myriad of ooh and shoh and what now? I mean, it’s like 50 people running around on an open farm at night with a spotlight om hase te skiet, and everybody is tripping over each other. And finally, that rabbit is sitting there, thinking, are we sure these are hunters?
Chris, you’ve got the DA, you’ve got the ANC, you’ve got Ronald Lamola, you’ve got AfriForum, Solidariteit, and Pieter van Welkom. And everybody is sitting there going, huh?
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Neil De Beer (04:05.378)
What they don’t understand is that not one person in this country is taking responsibility. They’re not taking responsibility. These are bloody adults. These are world leaders sitting there. And then you’ve got Donald Trump, who sits there like—well, Chris, it reminds me of something someone said to me the other day. He’s quite a religious man. I told him, Do you know there are 9,440 religious organizations in the world of faith? But there’s only one devil. How powerful is this devil?
So basically, if you take that analogy, we’ve had 85,000 people this week speak about everything going wrong, and it’s Donald Trump sitting there with a pen, thinking, damn.
So, number one—as jy ’n lat pluk, gaan jy gemoer word. If you pick that branch, don’t scream when you get beaten with it.
Let’s unpack it, Chris. Let’s unpack it for this country, but from a layman, citizen-ex point of view.
Number one—there are more than 140 laws within the Constitution, the legal framework, and on the statute books in this country that are perceived as, and correctly identified as, race-based laws. That’s number one. America frowned upon that.
Number two—this was not about land. This whole issue with the US was not sparked by Trump signing something about land reform.
I’m telling you what was building up to this crescendo—
It was the race-based laws.
Neil De Beer (06:18.296)
Donald Trump has previously attacked our BEE laws as being unfair and prejudiced. So, BEE.
The fact that the almighty South African ANC went to the International Criminal Court and laid a formidable charge of genocide against Israel.
They then went and signed laws—three of them incumbent, one not, but two others: the BELA Act, again targeting Afrikaners; the EWC (Expropriation Without Compensation); and then the NHI.
Chris, can you now see the chain of events that led to this moment? This was not random. Donald Trump didn’t just wake up and decide to do this. I guarantee you, he had people whispering in his ear—probably Elon Musk—saying, By the way, Donald, when I tried to bring better internet connectivity through Starlink to South Africa, they told me I could, but only if I gave away a proportion of my company to the unfair race-based BEE law.
Make no mistake—hy druk daai skroefie in.
Now, you’ve got Marco Rubio getting up and saying, Well, as the new Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, to hell with them. And he’s also refusing to attend the G20 because Cyril Rama-Soek-Soek is chairing it.
Chris, there you have it. A litany of small detonations on a string of pearls leading to a massive dynamite bomb.
And now, ultimately—and I’ll tell you this because I know from the ground—no one expected the last detonation: a pure and final executive order from Donald Trump two days ago.
Neil De Beer (08:41.548)
Because you remember the previous discussion—he was standing at the foot of his airplane, Air Force One, and just made a comment. He was asked, “Are you going to bring out sanctions on Africa?” And he said, “No, South Africa.” He then spoke about the bad things being done here, etc. But at that stage, Chris, he had not yet signed a document regarding what he did two days ago.
He cut off certain relief funding, and you will remember that was approximately eight billion Rand—435 million US dollars. That funding was for antiretroviral drugs to support people in this country with HIV/AIDS. That was just the initial cut, and he stated that it would go under investigation.
Two days later, he signed a very significant executive order cutting all support and relief to the Republic of South Africa. This has now automatically ignited a political firestorm. No matter the land, no matter the doctors, and no matter the NHS, he— in my opinion—has taken this personally. And what has now happened is he is saying, “No, no, not just the one portion, but AGOA and all our trade is now under threat.”
What is the sum total, Chris? In 2024, this country, due to the value of exports and sales through AGOA, was worth more than 164 billion Rand. That is a lot of money, Chris. That is just one portion stuck on agriculture. The value of our trade last year bordered over 100 billion Rand—’n honderd miljard. So this is serious. This is not a pudding-pie contest where we are taking plastic swords and fighting Sri Lanka. This is the United States of America. And I am flabbergasted…
Neil De Beer (11:04.588)
…that Cyril went onto a golf course and was applauded by his jesters. I don’t know if you saw that—him hitting a golf ball that nearly dropped into the first hole, and everybody around him went wild. Wat ‘n klomp toss. I mean, they are singing for their supper, watching him, and then he turns around and says, “No, we’re going to definitely send a delegation.” What? You’re going to send a delegation?
My brother Cyril, if you could put the whole Cabinet, 60,000 farmers, and every person you can find onto a Flossie and send them to go beg, you better do it now because we are in trouble, and it doesn’t seem like anybody has the guts to go and face The Donald.
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Chris Steyn (11:50.889)
Well, it doesn’t seem like it’s only the country that’s in trouble, Neil. The Democratic Alliance’s support base has been hit hard. So has AfriForum’s…
Neil De Beer (12:04.750)
Chris, almal gaan brand.
You know, at the end of the day, if you put your hand into a honeycomb surrounded by angry bees, you’re going to get stung. The first one pulls the honeycomb—stung. The next one—stung. The other one—stung. Almal word gesteek op die oomblik, and the people being stung the hardest are us as South Africans. We are being stung so badly that it’s becoming the Moulin Rouge.
At the end of the day, Chris, what we’re seeing here is that the ANC needed a scapegoat, so they started attacking AfriForum. Fine, no problem. Blame me, blame you—unbelievable that a small Afrikaans civil society organization can cause such damage, isn’t it? It is mind-boggling that Kallie Kriel could actually cause this, but anyway, I think we give him too much credit.
Now, after Cyril tried to get involved and claim that this is absolutely wrong because Section 25 of the Constitution protects private property ownership, the DA is arguing that we still have the opportunity to challenge the new law in court.
Then John Steenhuisen had to step in because, after the United States dismissed Cyril outright, someone had to respond. And I’m telling you, John had no choice. If Cyril wasn’t being listened to anymore, who were they going to listen to? That’s why it fell on John, as the other side of the GNU bridge, to step in and try to solve this matter. But when he stood up and tried to explain that, in his view, the information being spread was false, Chris, nobody cared. The perception was clear—they didn’t give a damn about what John was saying. All they saw was a puppet…
Neil De Beer (14:26.478)
…who was now stepping in to try to protect Cyril. That was the perception I saw all over social media.
And Chris, they took flak. The DA has taken more political hits in the past week than I have ever seen in my lifetime in politics.
Now, you have the GNU sitting there, compromised, because no one wants to speak to the ANC. They see this as an ANC law, and, Chris, it was signed with such bravado, but now I think they are realizing they made a mistake. No one is being spared. Absolutely everybody is now being painted with the same brush. And that is why, Chris, we need cool heads right now.
We need to go state our case to America. I think you saw that there was a discussion this week about me possibly going. I have been invited by a certain group to go to Washington. It would be an honor. And someone asked me, “Neil, who do you represent?” I represent myself.
Secondly, what would I tell Trump if I saw him? I would tell him the bloody truth. And what is the truth, Chris? The truth is that this country, for the first time in a very long time, is experiencing racial tensions on the streets and on social media at levels I haven’t seen in decades.
And it is actually very sad. South Africans have already suffered so much, we have tried so hard to get things right, and now we’ve gone back to square one on the racial issue.
Chris Steyn (16:11.903)
Neil, you attended the State of the Nation Address last week.
Neil De Beer (16:27.384)
Chris, I didn’t attend it. Luckily, I stayed a bit away. I was in the vicinity but decided to have popcorn, a bit of slush, and watch it on TV because I thought, if there was ever going to be access to a circus, today was the day. And it was free.
I sat there, and Chris, I’m going to make a statement. When he spoke and finished, I turned to a colleague of mine, Michael Louis, who invited me to come watch this. And I said to him, “You know, if I wasn’t critically sober, a person who has never taken a drug except OROS, and maybe a person who was on Planet X, I would bloody well like and believe this guy.” Because if he—if he actually—Chris, sorry, if Cyril actually meant what he said and it was truthful, I wanted to believe him because it was a unifying speech. There was no critical explanation of the fiscus and finance. His entire structure of SONA was to talk about unity.
Now, you will remember his previous addresses. I told you that the year before, he compared South Africa to a little girl called Tintswalo—the journey of Tintswalo from birth, how she got the right to clean water, then an RDP house, then an education… and then Tintswalo went moer toe. Does anybody at this moment tell Cyril that Tintswalo is a little bit ill, has no work, no job, no medical aid, and is part of the 56% currently looking for employment? So Tintswalo is ook so effe moer toe. Tintswalo failed. You know, she’s on cough medicine.
And then the year before that, he used this beautiful phrase, Thuma Mina, which means Send Me.
Neil De Beer (18:44.512)
But then I turned it into Thuma Mina Pee, which means Send Me Where.
So every year, Cyril comes with this crescendo of trying to unify. He always speaks about programs, projects, commissions, and committees.
And I sit there and think, Hier gat ons al weer. And then, at the end of the day, this rollercoaster hits rock bottom.
So no, I watched him, I looked at the people, and I said to myself—same thing, same story, just a different who or how.
Very disappointing because he’s talking about things, Chris, that made me want to say, “Mr. President, you are absolutely so far apart from reality.”
Neil De Beer (19:43.310)
980 billion for this… 900 million for that.
And the only thing I was asking was, You’ve said this before. So, Chris, SONA was an absolute dud. It was numbing to the brain.
I give him points for trying to unify the country and for reading the names of every one of the 14 soldiers. I gave him an absolute plus for that. The fact that he’s now saying the country’s flags must fly at half-mast—a month after the incident—I think that was a positive gesture. Maybe some people saw it as him finally acting like a leader.
But unfortunately, Chris, he will never be a statesman, in my opinion, and he doesn’t invoke any excitement about what is going to happen this year.
Chris Steyn (20:38.939)
But yet, he was applauded by some of the very same opposition party members who had previously slated his speeches. The same ones.
Neil De Beer (20:50.466)
Chris, if you look at it—if you really look at it, Chris—I always watch the people who come in front of the president. I think I must get a clip together for you. I am always astounded that when he walks into a room, plays golf, talks about pudding, or even if this guy just stood there and said, Ooh look, a cloud, there are always people around him who go…
Neil De Beer (21:16.972)
It’s pathetic. The king is naked. Hierdie koning is kaal. And he stands there, and no matter if he’s naked, Chris, people are clapping and laughing at his pathetic performance.
So I must tell you, it is sickening to me because if you were a real opposition, if you were a real representative of the people of this country, you wouldn’t have to smile and laugh at crap jokes. You could put your opinion across strongly and actually be a person with a conscience.
So, Chris, no, I am not impressed with anybody around him because they are court jesters clapping for the naked king.
And here’s the thing, Chris, and you know me—people say this about me—I’m not here for the popular vote. I don’t seek to be popular. I seek to be just.
And in the GNU, it seems like you’d rather be popular than make the right decision for 60 million people. And that weighs on me. You know that feeling you get after eating about 6kg of yellow fat, butter, and biltong? You know that knoppie you get here in your chest? That’s how I felt after watching SONA—I had to drink Milk of Magnesia.
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Chris Steyn (22:36.959)
Still on the presidency, the minister responsible for State Security is waiting to hear whether she will be prosecuted for alleged tender corruption. And that’s just one aspect of the crisis in the intelligence services. We also saw former State Security Minister Bongani Bongo granted bail in a state capture-related case, Neil.
Neil De Beer (23:01.198)
Chris, are we clear on what you just said? I mean, sorry, I have to push pause. You know, I got so many laughs last time when I spoke about Eskom se Push.
I just need to get my lips ready.
Can we push pause quickly on politics?
Did we just say that the current Minister in the Presidency, who is in charge of the spies, intelligence, and the Secret Service, is under investigation? Is that correct?
Chris Steyn (23:49.435)
I think the Hawks finished the investigation, Neil, and handed over the results to the NPA for a decision.
Neil De Beer (23:55.436)
Right, so this is the person who is supposed to be cleared on the topmost secrets, the most vulnerable secrets, the most sensitive secrets of this country—and they are under investigation, right? And then, did we just say the double whammy, the double draai met die flake, and the cherry on top, with the crumbs and caramel dip? Is that the previous Minister of State Security, who sits with vulnerable secrets and intimidating intelligence, now being dragged back to court and recharged with fraud? Are we clear, Chris?
Neil De Beer (24:46.518)
And this is shocking!
Chris Steyn (24:46.557)
Well, we’re still dealing with allegations, Neil. Nobody has been convicted yet.
Neil De Beer (24:52.846)
Sure, but you know, someone said to me the other day, “Allegedly, you’re ugly.” What he actually meant was, jy is vrek lelik.
But this is the problem, Chris—we are sitting with “allegedly,” “moontlik,” “jy weet.” It’s shocking because, Chris, we are not talking about a minor role here. This isn’t a governmental minister in charge of waste collection or deciding where sewage pipes go—because, let’s be honest, it all ends up in Parliament anyway. This is not a lightweight position we are discussing. The Minister of State Security, the Minister of Intelligence—where I have been—handles matters of the most critical importance for defending this state, our people, both foreign and domestic. And yet, allegedly, they are now under scrutiny for criminal intent and criminal conduct.
I want to pause here and say that in a normal society, Chris, they would be suspended—allegations or not. Because what we have here is a minister with access to spies, people with access to electronic media and intelligence facilities, which could be used to aid and abet their own case.
Neil De Beer (26:46.978)
Just look at what Zuma did. Because if you’re in control of the security and intelligence apparatus, Chris—and we come from that world—you can use it for both good and evil.
And I must say, I am gobsmacked—no, no, scratch that—I am not surprised that both of these individuals have never been removed, never suspended, never reprimanded, and never dragged before any commission, any committee, or even the ANC’s so-called Integrity Commission. So here we are again—both the past and present ministers under the spotlight.
Allegedly.
Chris Steyn (27:36.671)
Allegedly, allegedly, Neil. That very same minister in the Presidency allegedly has presidential ambitions.
Neil De Beer (27:49.032)
Oh, I think half the pigs in Bloemfontein want to be president too! You know, everybody in this country has presidential ambitions. The problem is, most of them have an IQ below five. Haai, that’s harsh. I’d like to withdraw that—allegedly.
Chris, people ask me, “Why do you have a picture of Winston Churchill? Why do you have Nelson Mandela? Why do you have John F. Kennedy? Why do you have Indira Gandhi?” Why am I surrounded in my house by these figures? I’ll tell you why, Chris. It’s not that I agree with everything Churchill did. It’s not that everything Mandela did was perfect. It’s not that I approve of everything Kennedy or even Donald Trump has done. In fact, there are probably 80% of things I don’t like about you, and about 90% of things I don’t like about myself.
But there is one thing—each of these people had something remarkable about them. And Chris, there is something remarkable about you too. There’s something about your journey that is extraordinary. Winston Churchill, to me, was not just a leader—he was a statesman. He said things that we should be paying attention to right now. Like when he said, “It is better to jaw, jaw, jaw than to war, war, war.” He also said, “You cannot negotiate with a tiger while your head is in its mouth.” These were the words of Winston Churchill during the world’s greatest conflict—World War II—and I respect that.
Nelson Mandela was not just a leader—he was a statesman.
Chris, being the president of a country is not about being popular. Being the president of a country requires something deeper. And I have worked with some of them. I have had the humbling experience of meeting real statesmen. So, when people talk about…
Neil De Beer (30:00.092)
Panyaza Lesufi, who’s not even a gentleman. Paul Mashatile, krummels op die vloer. He’s not a statesman. And definitely not Fikile Mbalula. So, Chris, amongst Pieter Groenewald, John Steenhuisen, Cyril Ramaphosa, Paul Mashatile, Fikile Mbalula, Panyaza Lesufi, and Dingalong, who is now also trying to be president. Die klein tannie.
Can we sit back, Chris, and say to each other that this country truly has a statesman or a stateswoman that all of us, no matter our political differences, no matter our religious differences, our racial connotations, our culture, will unilaterally sit back and say, “That’s a statesman.” And I’ll end it there by saying it’s a shocking shame that this country has run out of statesmen or stateswomen. And that is my problem at this current moment.
Chris Steyn (31:03.935)
South Africa does seem to be on the tipping point on so many fronts, Neil.
Neil De Beer (31:15.032)
Chris, it’s come. You know, I have not seen the Afrikaner. There are so many words: Afrikaner, Boer. I don’t want to shock you, maar ek is een. Ek is ’n Afrikaner. Like it or not, I am. I want to tell you I’m a proud Afrikaans speaker. I was born on a farm in Stellenbosch. My legacy and heritage of family are Afrikaner.
And… you know, people always say, “But Neil, you were in the ANC and you were this and…” Yeah. I followed an ideology. At this moment, I’m disappointed. I have the right, you know—again, here we go—Winston Churchill said, “But Sir, if you cannot change your mind, how will you expect to change your world?” I have the right to change my mind, and so do you.
Chris, you and I carry a couple of secrets. Not our secrets, but secrets of people who have confided in us. Just recently this week, another one. And not to spoil the rumblings of the drum—what a secret, what a discussion you are going to have very soon. What people don’t know, Chris, is people love us. They don’t love us as us; they love our integrity. That three-page letter we received, stating that after many, many, many weeks of watching us, this person has decided to bring up, yes, a national—probably world—secret. Chris, this is the burden you and I now carry. People write to us. They believe in us. And the problem is, Chris, we can’t walk away from it. I think you and I have not slept for three, four, five days after listening to another dark side.
The fact of the matter is that this country…
Neil De Beer (33:20.744)
…is at a crossroads. We might not think it, but we are.
We have a multitude of racial tensions, of matters to be tested, and, for the first time since ’93, ’94, having to sit down and say that all the people of this country, the Constitution, the dream of a rainbow nation, the walks of Madiba’s reconciliation, the TRC, the getting on with it, the great games we have won—on the field and off the field—the inspiration…
Neil De Beer (34:09.708)
…of a beautiful country.
A country where people were willing to die, black and white. A country where we stood on principles. A country where, no matter how ill you are, how dark it gets, how black and white destroy each other, how people can stand on a podium and say, “Kill the white.”
And yesterday, where a parliamentarian can sit on Twitter—a parliamentarian of this country, a person who took an oath, an allegiance to defend democracy and the Constitution—when another parliamentarian asked, “What is the solution about the Afrikaners and the whites in this country? Can we not get Cyril to give them airplanes to leave for free?” And the answer on a…
Neil De Beer (35:17.218)
…public social media platform from this parliamentarian was two words: “Plaas moord.”
This is a person who is a parliamentarian, who says that the solution now is not to get Afrikaner white people to leave this country in airplanes, but, shockingly, says the solution is farm murders.
I don’t care what side of the divide you are on. I don’t care about your politics. But when we have come to a point in this country where elected government officials have the same right to sit on a public platform and use the same kind of words they used in Rwanda…
Neil De Beer (36:19.928)
…to say, “Kill the cockroaches,” and what happened there.
We have really, this week, in my opinion, hit the lowest of the low in 30 years when this is allowed, and when this kind of hate speech is now being projected.
So Chris, in conclusion, yes, South Africa has come to many crossroads now.
But I will say, Chris, I am a patriot of this country. I was born here, and I am willing to put the lights off if necessary. We will have to really dig deep this week. We will really have to have introspection, no matter who you are and what you are.
Because, Chris, if we love our country so dearly, if we love this land where we were born, no matter where we are—whether you’re sitting in the Karoo, the veldbos van die Langeveld, the thundering waves of Umhlanga, the Drakensberg mountains, the flat roads of the Free State, the beautiful flowers on the West Coast, the bokkoms of Saldanha, or die Kaapse Klopse under Table Mountain.
I beg the leaders of this country to stop their absolute hogwash…
Neil De Beer (38:01.496)
…to remember why they are there and to do anything, Chris, necessary. Even if it means that they’ve got to take the knee, go back to their foundation, but save this country and its beautiful people.
That’s my message today on BizNews. A bit emotional, but clear. I am a grandfather, and my little boy Aiden must know what a beautiful country he was born in.
Chris Steyn (38:46.835)
Thank you. That was Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement, on the Sunday Show with BizNews, and I am Chris Steyn. Thank you, Neil.
Neil De Beer (38:57.528)
Thanks, Chris.
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