United Independent Movement (UIM) President Neil de Beer defies death threats to be back on the Sunday Show with BizNews – and says: “You are not going to silence us. In actual fact, tomorrow I will buy a bigger megaphone.” He goes on to speak about the return of racism to South Africa; the charge of incitement to violence he has laid against Economic Freedom Fighter (EFF) MP Andile Mngxitama; and describes the African National Congress’s evolution from Nelson Mandela’s reconciliation to Jacob Zuma and Cyril Ramaphosa’s “retribution”. As for US President Donald Trump’s retribution against South Africa, De Beer says it is not driven by the land redistribution issue, but by support for Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and BRICS membership, and calls President Cyril Ramaphosa a “moegoe” if he thinks he can “kick America to touch….let the white Afrikaners that want to leave, leave….and then replace America and the minorities with China”. De Beer also takes a deep dive into the perilous state of the country’s finances – and slams Finance Minister Enoch Godongwana as Treasury is negotiating a new R27 billion loan from the World Bank.
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Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:03.236)
Welcome to the Sunday Show with Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:11.694)
Chris, another Sunday, and what a show. Last Sunday, reaching more now than 225,000 views, nearly a quarter of a million, so proud. But it shows that this country, Chris, is ready to accept information and that the political ears are opening, I think, for the normal person. So to everybody, thank you, making the show the reality that it is.
Chris Steyn (00:40.74)
Well, Neil, it won’t be the first time that you’ve hit a quarter of a million views in a week, but let’s go to the worst news, the most alarming news of this week, death threats against you and your family.
Neil De Beer (00:56.46)
Yeah, I must say, Chris, that if you continually take a crooked stick and you are poking a straight up bear, you should not live in a bubble and think that you’re not going to be getting resistance. I am poking the bear and we are blatantly getting up and more and more so. So, yeah, last week, not the best week in the sense of personal safety and that attack on us. So Chris, we have now taken measures, but sad, sad that when a person, just an individual, including you, when you get up and draw lines in a sand, when you decide that there is enough lies being perpetrated on us as Citizen X, and you get up, you get a platform, a brilliant platform like this, and you bring the truth every single time, nothing else, without prejudice, without party politics affiliation or race, that people will get up and say, well, because you are doing this, because you are harming our natural process of looting, stealing, lying, that they need to say, well, in that case, you know, we need to take you out. And I am not naive. I come from a side which is dark. But it is heartsore that your family and that yourself get put into harm’s way. Here’s the news though, Chris. I am not afraid of you. I don’t care whom you are. I will now get even more motivated to get up and to ensure that this country has the rightful fight to bring that liberty, that freedom and that which we as a country so well deserve. So yeah, we’ve done assessments, we are adjusting to it. Obviously, can’t speak much. Maar julle gaan my nie stilmaak nie. You are not going to silence us. In actual fact, tomorrow I will buy a bigger megaphone.
Chris Steyn (03:17.601)
Well, Neil, it is against this background that racism is rampant on social media. You had to go and lay a charge last week as well. Tell us about it.
Neil De Beer (03:31.032)
Chris, know, I found out that this country has moved into an era, a time, which we are all referring to as seemingly we are going back to pre-94. No, we are not. We are in 2025. And what is happening in this country is an absolute travesty of justice. And I will say it is the few fueling the many for their narrative and their agenda. And this is a fact that we are saying to the masses out there, be it white, be it coloured, be it Indian, be it black, and that alone is shocking that we are still talking about a racial pigmentation instead of looking at the colour of your soul, because that’s what we fought for. People like myself who endured pre- and post-, people like you Chris. We thought that we are not going to be classified by racial segment. We failed. If you look at the total hate, if you look at this vehement, vile, spewing of black, white, of white this and black that it is shocking the attacks I get. And Chris, this is all because we are following a Bell Pottinger, Stratcom ideology of a group of people that have decided to collude and that the only thing that they can spew is race. And unfortunately, it’s like dog and bone, Chris. No matter what a dog is busy with, running around, catching the ball, springing over nice little dribbles of hosepipe water? Bone. That’s race in this country. Now I’m going to say to you, Chris, it is because of the lack of education in this country that we cannot get debates, arguments, discussions on an educated level.
Neil De Beer (05:54.666)
And those that are educated or presumed to declare they are educated are clever enough to abuse race. 400 people in parliament. These are supposed to be the elected officials that go to parliament and have a certain level, surely, of knowledge. A certain level of understanding that they represent those whom sent them there. They take an oath, Chris,…
Neil De Beer (06:23.98)
Yes, they take a public oath when they go to office. And part of that oath, which is a commitment under law, not just a pinky promise, they swear allegiance to the state and the constitution of this country, the apex law. En wragtig, one of those people that took that oath to defend and protect the constitution of the Republic. Mr. Andile Mngxitama, who we will remember, was the same spewing person who started Black Land First, Black Life First, sommer alles eerste who stood on a podium and called for murder, never charged. Now, two weeks ago, decides that on his Twitter account, X, which I wish he was, Ex, says in a Twitter feed in public when a person says, I hope that Cyril Ramaphosa will give the Afrikaner whites enough aircraft to fly out to America. Another person then follows that tweet and says, no, the suggestion is they leave in coffins. And then Mr. Andile Mngxitama, Member of Parliament, Oath-taker and Member of MKP – I know him. Yes, I know him in person – puts on his Twitter account after the man says they should rather leave in coffins, he puts in a Twitter from his Twitter account, verified that it is him, he puts there: farm murders. Plaas moord.
Neil De Beer (08:22.006)
Now Chris, if that is not incitement to violence, if that is not breaching your code as a member of parliament, code of ethics and just code of being a principled public representative, then I don’t know what. So yes, Chris, I went to the police station and I charged him with a criminal case of incitement of violence. That docket is now in Cape Town and now they must investigate.
Now…here comes what I’m talking about racism. They’re gonna say, but you racist. You racist. If there’s one thing you can’t call Neil De Beer, unfortunately, is a racist. I was a member of MK. I was a member of the ANC publicly. I ran for NEC eight years ago. Racist? That ain’t gonna fly with me, Chris. So you can call me whatever you want to, but there’s one thing you can’t call me that’s racist. So when I take you on, black or white, it’s because you’re wrong, not because you’re black or white. So I’m pulling a line, want ons is nou op daai punt…we are at that point where IQ is leaving us.
You know, Chris, when you go to a person and excuse me, this is not the coffee I ordered and the quality of this coffee is bad. The first thing they tell you in South Africa is, but you’re racist. We’ve got to stop this. And I said before that they can only stop this flame burning now between the white, the black, because that’s where it is, the radicals if leadership in this country leads by example – and they not, Chris, it’s the leaders in this country that are spurring on and flaming racism by the laws, the statements, and finally, Chris, the actions. They are spewing from their mouths and not double-checking it with their brain capacity.
Chris Steyn (10:10.275)
Well, in another bit of eye-popping news, Neil, Treasury is negotiating a new 27 billion-rand loan from the World Bank.
Neil De Beer (10:40.686)
Because they think it grows from trees. Chris, there’s a fundamental principle, not in international money, finance, or fiscal rules. You know, I spent a couple of years within the fiscus space, in the international finance space. And the first thing they taught me when you do international finance, because we used to handle transactions through global finance institutions to fund African countries and their infrastructures called the IFA, Invest Fund Africa, which I was the chairman. The first thing they tell you is don’t spend more than what you earn. Now, that’s the basics of any household, that is the basics of anybody’s initial fiscal policy: As jy Meer spandeer, is daar meer om te ignoreer. So, it seems in English, the more you spend, the more you ignore. But the problems are coming.
Just to give you a highlight on a fiscal scenario. You know, my ideology Chris, is always to take something that’s complex and make it simple. Complexity simple. So I’m going to make this very simple. Met anner woorde, een koekie seep en een koekie seep is twee. If you get three, you broke the other one. Here we are. The current debt as of 31 December 2024 that this country has built up an accumulative debt currently on the debt book that we owe the IMF 37.3 billion. We own at this current moment on a debt book since 2022, we owe the World Bank 12 billion from 2022. A cumulative more extra debt occurred last year of 45 billion and currently we are now going to the begging bowl and ask for a further 24 billion.
Neil De Beer (12:59.086)
That’s what we’re asking. So let that sink in. And then Chris, do you know that our gross domestic debt for 25 and 26 is six trillion Rand? Six trillion is our domestic government debt. And if you accumulate that, that is 75 percent currently of our gross domestic profit. So your GDP equals, if you want to, sorry now for the fiscal people, jammer Dawie Roodt, Magnus Heystek, I’m not a person that does sums, I am a soldier. Maak ek kan tel ne. Een AK is een AK.
Chris, 75% of the GDP, in other words, what we get into this country, met anner woorde, ses piesangs, five of those bananas that go to the circus, daai vyf piesangs immediately goes to debt. We’re not making a profit.
So much so that the IMF two weeks ago wrote to the governor, apparently, allegedly, and to the people running our first course and said, you better cap your GDP debt from 75% to a cap of 60%. You better drop it 15. And if you don’t do that, here are the words, Chris….
Neil De Beer (14:36.246)
…your country will be declared a country that is in debt distress. Which then means, Chris, standards and poor Moodie’s are going to come into this country and they’re going to again lower our credit rating and that will be the camel breaking the straw.
And you know what, Chris? Here’s the solution of Mr. Enoch Godongwana. Do you know what he’s saying? What is his remedy except going to borrow more money from the world, which by the way is in dollar run by America, who don’t like us apparently at this moment. Keep that in mind. His solution is to ensure that we get taxed more, more. So I’m sorry, we are heading into a budget speech by this man and if he’s gonna stand there let me quickly tell you he’s going to have to pull out a better trick of a disappearing elephant than what Boswell Wilkie Circus ever did in public. We will be watching this trick and then we will come back and say to yourself, real or false? Just like SONA
Neil De Beer (15:58.668)
You know, sonar is something that you get on a submarine to tell you and ping how far you are in trouble. Well, SONA was an absolute disaster. Let us see what Enoch can pull out of the market. But borrowing money on our behalf, because we pay for it, Chris. At the end of the day, those gabillion, gatrillion, gazillion is not being paid back by Cyril or Godongwana. It’s you and I that will endebt our children and their children’s children in future to pay back this debt. And we should not allow people just to borrow on our behalf.
Chris Steyn (16:46.941)
Maybe this is a good time to talk about the African National Congress’s evolution from Nelson Mandela’s reconciliation to Cyril Ramaphosa’s retribution, allegedly.
Neil De Beer (16:58.126)
I made that statement this week and it was very interesting to see the face of the person. You know, it was on a, I think an Afrikaans platform, Klets. Ons het ’n bietjie geklets and then people wrote back and said, Jissie hierdie ou kan darem kwaad raak en vloek. Chris, firstly, may I just say I don’t use profanity. I’m, although being horrible sometimes in attitude, I remain a gentleman. But I love Afrikaans. Jy weet ek is ’n Afrikaner. Except I wasn’t in Pretoria yesterday. But we’ll get to that. But Chris, I use three words. I love these words. And they come from nature. And these are the only three words in public, except when I’m at a braai, often with a Ulofberg, that I use in public because I’m a gentleman. So when I say moer, it comes from coffee. Moer coffee. When I say ek is de donner in, it comes from thunder. Donnerweer. En as ek vir iemand sê ek sal baie graag like om jou te bliksem. It comes from lightning. So bliksemstraal, donnerweer en moerkoffie. And I use all three of those 16 times a day. Especially when you deal with politicians.
Chris, I sat and said to that person, if there’s anybody that can speak about the transformation, and I’m not talking about that ugly fund, which we’ll also mention quickly for a minute, I’m talking about what happened to the ANC. Why am I so vehemently against an organisation that I spent a lot of time in? And people ask me, Ja maar jy kom vandaar af, jy was deel van daarvan. You are part of them. You are part of… Yeah, you see, I never ran away from it. It’s part of my history. I can’t eradicate it like other people are trying to wipe out history. History is a fact. Nelson Mandela’s ANC, hear me…
Neil De Beer (19:14.38)
…hoor my, ANC, was absolutely focused on reconciliation. He said it. He fought for it. And if there’s anyone, no matter what you call him, terrorist, communist, yeah, sure, you know, I eat meat, so I am probably a carnivore. But does that make you the person? Does that make you yourself? So let’s talk about it.
The fundamental principle in 94 was not to take revenge. It wasn’t to do retribution. And I’ll prove that to you. In the discussions running up to the TRC, in the discussions before the truth and reconciliation debate came, there was a discussion of having Nuremberg trials in this country. Chris, Nuremberg.
Neil De Beer (20:11.906)
The majority of the people that came from MK, the majority, Chris Hani, the people that Joe Slovo, Joe Modise, the people that were the radical armed wing did not want TRC. They wanted Nuremberg. They wanted people to go on trial. Magnus Malan, Constand Viljoen, Adriaan Vlok, Pik Botha. They wanted De Klerk, they wanted PW to be taken to trial, to stand in a dock, to be found guilty and either to hang or to be sentenced for life because based on a United Nations resolution. And that resolution was that Apartheid was declared, yes it was, a crime against humanity.
Can you imagine? Now you can debate that. I’m not there for that debate. So if the ANC in 94 took power under Mandela, Chris, this is the truth. I was there. I was in the debates. If they came in and charged, according to the UN resolution and the dockets that they had, if they charged and did that, Chris, the world would not have frowned. Do you agree with me? If they had a Nuremberg trial and sentenced them to 100, sentenced them to 80, do you really think the world would have gone, oooh that’s terrible? No, they wouldn’t have. They would have said, good, isn’t it? That was the sentiment of the world. It was the sentiment that time.
But what happened? They didn’t go to trial. They didn’t get hanged. Do you know what they did? Nelson Mandela decided to say, if you come and speak the truth, both sides. Yes. There were people from the ANC that had to come and testify, Chris.
Neil De Beer (22:25.538)
That shows you that Mandela wanted reconciliation. If he wanted revenge, people would still be dying in jail today. Not just a few. That was the proof. The Rugby World Cup, the wearing of Francois; jersey, the continual discussion that we should listen to the minorities. That was Mandela.
Now move 30 years later It’s now no longer reconciliation. It’s retribution. I can prove that. It’s retribution since the day that Zuma became president. Because the narrative that he had was revenge. Weird. The guy that spent the longest term in jail for what he did and did not do wanted reconciliation. And the guy that didn’t spend half the time, Jacob…. Zuma comes in… and he decides to turn this country into the now worn-out pride land.
What I’m telling this country is the truth. No benefit to me, no Bell Pottinger, definitely not Stratcom. I’m telling you the truth. They changed. They mutated from hope to putting the rope. Every law they make has got transformation, retribution, BEE, slapping the minority, 143 laws. I am telling you as a person that fought for reconciliation, I’m not getting up for the white men in this country. The white men in this country knows who they are, they know who they are. The black person in this country, they know who they are, they know where they stand. I am talking about justice and I’m talking about being fair, because that’s what Neil de Beer stands for, justice and fair. And this cannot continue, Chris. We cannot continue breaking justice and becoming unfair because of the narrative of a couple of people that are absolutely wrong and do not have one inkling of conscience in their mind and in their brain. Because if they had it, they would not allow this country to now be where it is. That is the summary of the ANC. And this ANC is going to die a death…
Neil De Beer (24:51.734)
…not because it is a bad organisation, not because it was a great liberation organisation, it is because it has been infiltrated and it has been absolutely taken over with people that have no understanding about humanity and about karma. And that is my opinion.
Chris Steyn (25:16.163)
You know, talking about retribution, South Africans are not only feeding it on the inside, but it’s also coming in the form of payback from the United States. However, some Afrikaners descended on the U.S. Embassy in Pretoria yesterday to show love for U.S. President Donald Trump.
Neil De Beer (25:39.042)
I’m going to drop the bomb. Here it comes. Take this. Because as you know, people say, but what can you do? And you’re not in parliament and your voice is so small and you’re a failed politician. Yes, I am. All of the above. Failed, bad politician, probably absolutely idiotically mad human being. Jissem, maar die mense love my. You know, there are a few people that when I walk into a Wimpy…
Neil De Beer (26:09.196)
…they buy me a milkshake and then they hug me to death that I can’t eat my burger. They are a few mad people in this country like me.
So here it comes. I am telling you Chris, that this thing, and I get this from the inside.…Jy weet binne in die moer van. Binne die koek van. I’m not getting this from a newspaper. Okay?
I was clearly told that the absolute mayhem of the racial issue of the matters of AfriForum, Solidariteit, and all of those people that do great debit orders, that that conclave, that the racial segment debate, the discussion about the land without giving you back some reward, compensation. Chris, they are telling me it’s got nothing to do with it. Hey, can you imagine you go and run around, create narratives and even in the night take a piece of paper and use a cokey for a poster because the budget’s low. And then you go and run around and you tell America, thank you. Baie dankie, Trump is going to save us. And then you find out…
Neil De Beer (27:44.586)
… why Trump is de moer in? Only a fifth of it is race.
What’s the other four, Chris?
This is the question. You know, when I was trained as a spy, although I didn’t get the psycho disappearing watch, the laser in the ear, the beautiful underwater car, or a beautiful Russian lady called Stranka from Moscow, I got Annetjie.
So, so, hear me, here’s the four things, Chris, that really made them pluk their moer.
It’s not race. Because in America, they’ve got their own racial things going on. You know, it is not like South Africa patented racism. Damn, they’ve still got the people running around with bed sheets at night. So, you know, they don’t care about race. There’s people running around en ja, maar dit is rassisme. No, listen to me. Hey, it’s got nothing to do with race. Can I tell you what’s about?
Neil De Beer (28:57.186)
The United States of America doesn’t give a damn about ons wat mekaar hier moer nie. They are de moer in because of one because this government decided that its bedgatgabba is Iran. Yes sir, Iran. They are saying but you Cyril, your best buddy, one of them is Iran. Does that make sense? Of course it makes sense. America hates Iran. So that’s the first thing. We chose our friends, Iran.
Number two, we have never in the time of the resurgent of the Middle East conflict, we have never stood up and declared that Hamas and Hezbollah are organisations that are seen by the world and yes, America as terrorist organizations. That’s the second thing. So Iran, Trip Switch One, Hamas and Hezbollah, Trip Switch Two, and then we’re a founding member, a promoter, and an absolute partner in BRICS. Number three….
Neil De Beer (30:23.862)
…which again, America, they are absolutely against them. And here’s the coup de grace, here’s number four Chris, that makes up the five. Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, absolutely, BRICS and here’s the cherry. We as South Africa took a couple of million, our money, alweer Tant Stienie, Grietjie, Annemarie, Sipho, Chris. Neil, Duncan, Sean, all of us, they took our money and they went to the International Criminal Court without our mandate.
Neil De Beer (31:08.44)
There wasn’t a referendum. They just got on that airplane. I don’t even know what it’s called… They spent our jet fuel. They landed there and they charged Israel with genocide.
Neil De Beer (31:31.18)
Now luckily I don’t get into the debate of Israel and Palestine because it is a anner debate. This that I’m exposing is fact. There you are.
And then race. But racial segregation, racial oppression in the Republic of South Africa does not at this current moment affect the White House. It does not threaten the White House. It has no substance of changing the United States of America’s domestic evolution. Chris, here it is, the Minister of Foreign Affairs…
Neil De Beer (32:16.514)
…declared the following on record – die mense in die Parliament moet net lees; YouTube – he went there and he said the following, from now on, Chris, are we hearing this? This must go out to the world. From now on, in the Trump era, there will be three questions. This is critical. I’m the only one talking about it. He said it! The Secretary of State said from now on, if you want to do business with the United States of America, there will be officially a three-point test.
One. Does the contract agreement or funding of the United States benefit the security of the people and the citizenry of the United States? In other words, does what we do with you make that country safer?
Two, does the contract, the funding or the agreement with you make America wealthier as a country?
Neil De Beer (33:44.11)
And number three, does the contract, the agreement or the association or funding from America to you, does that benefit the growth of the United States of America as the number one economic power in the world?
Daarsy, you’ve heard it on BizNews, Chris and Neil, clearly without a doubt.
So Chris, let’s test it. Does the relationship with Iran, China, India, Saudi, Brazil, BRICS, does that relationship benefit the security of the United States of America? No. Does it make America wealthier that we support BRICS? No. And does it create an absolute sustainable future to make America number one? No. No one Israel, no one Hamas, no one Iran, and no one BRICS. That’s it. That’s the summary, Chris.
And now the question is…not will race relations in this country change? It won’t, because it is embedded in our DNA. It is generations and generations that will still carry the burden of that thing, racism. It is just in our blood and we will have to work on it. But can this country’s government, the GNU…
Neil De Beer (35:37.848)
…can the people in the GNU, can they decide tomorrow in parliament? They cut ties with Iran. Yes, they can. It’s a foreign policy. Can they decide to resign from BRICS? Yes, they can. Just look at the contract. Can they vehemently deny not to attack Hamas or to attack Hezbollah but to not support and endorse their actions? Yes, they can. Again, Mr. Lamola, you can issue that instruction. And finally, can we walk away from Iran and conclaves of BRICS, conclaves of every other commitment, and can we cancel our support to the International Criminal Court case that we put against Israel? Yes, we can. Because those matters are not racial, they’re not embedded, they’re not time-framed, and they’re not in the Constitution.
Will they?
Neil De Beer (36:49.09)
Will they have the balls? Answer? No. Because if the rumour, the rumour is that they got paid by Iran, someone did, to lay the charge against Israel. I mean, I see that rumour, that allegation 18 times a week. It’s not been confirmed. I have not seen the transfer, the EFT or the bank account. But just go with us, allegedly, you like that word. Allegedly, Anders dagvaar hulle die lewende…uit ons uit, allegedly we got paid. So then they can’t get out because they voluntarily took it. Let’s say they didn’t get paid, but they got influenced which is worse than getting paid because then you fell for that IQ. They won’t withdraw. They will not kick Iran to touch.
Number two, they won’t leave BRICS. I’ll tell you why they won’t leave BRICS because this country actually foolishly thinks within Cyril Soekie Cyril en say trawante. I heard him called a great word, Chris. And I know we’re running out of time, but listen to this word. For the first time, I remembered such a glorified word. Someone called Cyril ’n Moegoe. Ooh, hy is ‘n moegoe. What a word. I am currently investigating the origins of moegoe, but let me quickly tell you, if I find it, lovely word. So Moegoe Cyril, at this current moment, thinks that he is going to kick America to touch. It’s going to let the white Afrikaners that want to leave, leave. And then it’s going to replace America and the minorities with China.
Neil De Beer (38:51.062)
He thinks that he’s card up his sleeve, huh, is China? Well, let me tell you that is going to go from hot water to a boiling kettle because China, when they come to your country, they buy and totally take over your culture. So we are just going to be replaced from one major to another. We’re going to use the Yuan, which is their currency. They’re going to bring 450,000 Chinese and they’re going to put up a Chinese mall and a discount drive-through for takeaway, replacing every McDonald’s.
And if this is what this government is thinking, if this is your train of thought that you’re going to change our economic benefit from America to China, India and a small little bit of coffee from Brazil, dan is jy ‘n moegoe. And then we are more moer toe than what we think.
So answer, Chris, this is not America slapping us because there’s a racial problem. They slapping us because our foreign policy is vehemently against their narrative. And that’s the problem we are going to have to address.
Will the GNU be able to sort it out? Will straight heads, clear-minded thinking people in the GNU be able to convince the draconian dragon of an ANC that lost its left arm, its ninth head, and some of it nuts in that fight and got 40% and still thinks it’s a scary dragon, will the clarity of voices in that GNU calm this down? And that’s my analysis, right or wrong?
Chris Steyn (40:40.877)
Thank you. That was Neil de Beer, the president of the United Independent Movement, defying death threats to be back on the Sunday Show with BizNews. And I’m Chris Steyn.
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