Former President Jacob Zuma’s MK party knows that they will not succeed with treason charges laid against Afrikaner lobby groups, but did so to “let the flames of racial divides in this country burn higher”. So says Democratic Alliance (DA) MP Willie Aucamp who is also the national spokesperson for the party. In this interview, he speaks about the need for the DA to persuade the African National Congress (ANC) to change the country’s foreign policy. “…if they want this Government of National Unity to work, they must come into this GNU boots and all and allow their partners to also have their say, our say in things like foreign policy. If you look at clause 19 of the Statement of Intent, it clearly talks about sufficient consensus on all issues. And you cannot isolate foreign affairs and international relations and say sufficient consensus, but not on this…It’s not how it’s going to work – and the Democratic Alliance will definitely not accept that…from here onwards the ANC will require us and we made it clear to them that they must come with policies that will be to the benefit of this country and its people; otherwise we will not support them.
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Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:01.691)
The high treason investigations into Afrikaner lobby groups have the nation in fierce debate. We speak to Democratic Alliance MP Mr. Willie Aucamp, who is also the national spokesperson for the party. Welcome, Mr. Aucamp.
Willie Aucamp (00:15.662)
Good morning, Chris. Always nice to speak to BizNews and your listeners.
Chris Steyn (00:19.783)
You’re welcome. You have described the laying of charges as a frivolous stunt by former President Jacob Zuma’s MK party. However, the Police Minister seems to be taking this very seriously.
Willie Aucamp (00:32.586)
Chris, this is an absolutely ridiculous charge that has been laid by them. The last time I checked, we were living in a constitutional democracy, a constitution that protects freedom of speech. AfriForum, Solidarity, the DA, you, your mother-in-law, and everybody else have the right to freedom of speech, which is protected. So, it’s absolutely frivolous. These charges were brought by a party that is just as frivolous as the complaints they have laid.
Chris Steyn (01:05.767)
But if charges were brought, would that mean that South Africa is beginning to regard the U.S. as a known external enemy and that we should all be careful consorting with it?
Willie Aucamp (01:19.800)
Well, this is the risk. We know that we are in a very volatile international space at the moment. We’ve got to realize that whatever we do in this country will have repercussions. To now come and lay charges of treason against an organization that I believe also fights for the rights and goodwill of every South African is absolutely done in bad faith. I think they did it because they want relevance.
You should have relevance in what you do to build up this country, not in what you do to try and segregate us and put us into camps. We’ve got to distinguish between the builders and the breakers, as the DA’s leader John Steenhuisen has said on many occasions. I am firmly of the opinion that MK is part of the breakers of this country. They know they will not succeed with these charges, and they know that the only reason they brought them was to fan the flames of racial division. It’s unnecessary. We need to work together to find common ground in this country, and that is what MK should have done instead of going to the police with absolutely ridiculous charges that will not hold water.
Chris Steyn (02:43.943)
So do you think that AfriForum, Solidarity, and other Afrikaner groupings cannot be blamed for the punitive steps being taken by U.S. President Donald Trump?
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Willie Aucamp (02:58.018)
The main reason I believe Donald Trump is doing what he has done is because previous ANC governments over the last 30 years made the wrong decisions regarding international policy every single time. We chose the side of Russia every time. We had war exercises with Russia and China on numerous occasions. We chose the side of Hamas and Iran.
When you say you’re going to be neutral, as our government claimed regarding the Ukraine war—which we know they weren’t really neutral about—then you have to be neutral across all conflicts. But on October 7, Hamas attacked Israel. Thousands of people were killed, and thousands were taken hostage. What did our government do? They did not stay neutral. They immediately defended Hamas.
They also attempted to bring Iran into BRICS, a country that clearly states that the United States is its archenemy. So if you engage in actions like these over many years, do you think that country will continue supporting you? Many people are clouding what is happening currently and trying to shift the blame onto AfriForum, Solidarity, and other groups. However, the main reason we are in this situation is due to the poor decisions of the ANC government in the past—not only in international policy but also in local policies—where they have shown themselves to be a corrupt organization that does not act in the best interests of the country.
We need to change that. We need to turn things around. From the Democratic Alliance’s side, we have sent numerous delegations to Washington over the years. The message we delivered every time was…
Willie Aucamp (05:01.122)
…please do not think that South Africa is only the ANC. South Africa is far more than the ANC. We told U.S. delegations that there would come a day when the ANC would not govern alone anymore. Last year, we saw that.
We are now in a Government of National Unity. It is extremely difficult to manage because everyone has to learn how to trust each other, how to govern without the absolute power they once had, and, in some cases, how to handle power they have never had before. In this environment, we must work together.
But international policy is one of those areas where the ANC must realize they no longer govern alone. If they want this Government of National Unity to succeed, they must fully commit and allow their partners to have a say in decisions like foreign policy.
For the ANC to try and deflect from this reality is disingenuous. The main issue is the ineptitude of past ANC governments.
Chris Steyn (06:16.398)
Realistically speaking, what are the chances of this GNU being able to change foreign policy to the point that it would appease the U.S.? You used the word “allow.” Does that mean that the DA is at the mercy of the African National Congress when it comes to foreign policy decisions?
Willie Aucamp (06:39.566)
Maybe “allow” was the wrong word to use. It’s definitely not “allow”—it’s “accept.” They must accept the fact that we are here. If you look at Clause 19 of the Statement of Intent, it clearly talks about sufficient consensus on all issues. You cannot isolate foreign affairs and international relations and say sufficient consensus applies to everything except this. That is not how it will work, and the Democratic Alliance will definitely not accept that. The ANC must realize that we have to work together.
We saw this in the budget. You remember that the BELA Bill, the Expropriation Act, and the NHI Bill were all passed in the previous parliament when the ANC still had a majority.
On February 19, when Minister Enoch Godongwana did not deliver his budget speech, it was the first time that the Government of National Unity had to agree on a policy collectively. The Democratic Alliance opposed the 2% VAT increase, and our leader, John Steenhuisen, made it very clear that we would not support it. This led to the Speaker of Parliament postponing the meeting.
That was a significant moment. It was the first real indication to the ANC that things have changed. Unlike in the past, when they could steamroll legislation through Parliament, they now need our cooperation. We have made it clear that they must introduce policies that benefit the country and its people; otherwise, we will not support them.
Chris Steyn (08:31.335)
So you do believe the DA has the power then to sway the African National Congress to walk back on historic foreign policy stances?
Willie Aucamp (08:43.8)
Well, we’ve got the ability to try to persuade them. I think if you look at what’s going on, the ANC realizes that the world order is changing in a big way, and President Trump, whether you like it or not, is there. He usually does what he says he will do. And if you are not going to adapt to that, you are going to be left behind. We need to adapt. From a South African perspective, we need to show that if we are neutral, we truly are neutral.
Look at India. India is also a member of BRICS, but it manages to have discussions with Russia without calling them “our friend.” India is welcome in the United States. India has a good relationship with President Donald Trump. They can sit around the table.
But we don’t have to go and tell the world that Russia is our friend. We know there is a lot of suspicion that Iran gave money to the ANC. And I believe that, should that be the case, it will come out at some stage. But we need to be consistent in what we say and do.
If you receive a lot of money from a country like the United States, and we see now that all aid has been stopped, it is a terrible thing. It will have a huge effect on people’s lives. I spoke to farmers in the rhino industry over the weekend who said that even the funding they received for protecting wildlife has now been stopped. So across a wide spectrum, we are going to lose aid. And we must try our best to get that back.
But Chris, the main issue here from the United States’ perspective is that whoever makes decisions about South Africa must have the correct information on the table. Because if we are going to lose AGOA, it will have lasting and devastating consequences for many people in South Africa, especially our commercial farmers who export their products to the United States without having to pay…
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Willie Aucamp (10:55.767)
…the import taxes on those goods.
Chris Steyn (11:01.777)
This international standoff has reignited racism to a level that we have not seen in decades, something we thought no longer existed. What can be done to diffuse it?
Willie Aucamp (11:17.698)
Yes, it’s a pity, but unfortunately, racial divisions have, in certain areas, been drawn up again. That is why I said in my statement yesterday: now is the time for cool-headed leadership. That is what we need now. We need leaders who do not lean toward extremes. We need calm, and we need to build on the hard work that we, as a nation, have done over the last 30 years to reconcile with each other, to find common ground, and to realize that we are all in this country together. If we want to make this country work, we must all work together. That is the message that should be shared. We should not do anything that further polarizes us as a nation. South Africa is a nation of different cultures, different languages, and different regions, yet we are still one South African nation.
Chris Steyn (12:15.355)
There has been a lot of focus on the rights of minorities recently. But what about the rights of the majority, which have also been trampled upon by the African National Congress over the last 30 years? Some people feel that white privilege now extends to suffering—that the suffering of the minority is seen as more important than the suffering of the majority. What do you make of this?
Willie Aucamp (12:41.42)
That is why we have to turn this whole country around. If you look at the policies of BBBEE, which the ANC has tried to enforce over the last 30 years, they have only enriched a few, not the masses. These policies did not create a strong, black middle class, which is something we all wanted to see. Instead, they only benefited a handful of people.
If you visit a township in the area where I come from and walk around, as I often do, you will see that there are absolutely no services. There are taps, but no running water. There is no proper sewage system. It is a disaster. What the ANC did in previous governments simply did not work.
We have to turn that around. Yes, we have different cultures, and we have minorities. But South Africa is made up of many minorities, not just the Afrikaner. We tend to frame it as “Afrikaners on one side” and “black or brown people on the other side,” but that is not the full picture. We have Afrikaner culture, Zulu culture, Venda culture, Xhosa culture—many different cultural identities within our population.
For example, yesterday in Parliament, we debated mother-tongue education. Your language is as much a part of your culture as your ancestors are. We need to expand on that. We need to ensure that every cultural group, every language in this country, is protected and promoted, as our Constitution demands.
Unfortunately, the ANC has done nothing…
Willie Aucamp (14:36.378)
…to enhance those individual cultures. It’s one thing to say “unity in diversity,” but we have only focused on the unity part, not on the diversity part. We have not acknowledged that we can all work together while still respecting our different backgrounds. But that can only happen if we admit that we have different backgrounds, cultures, and languages. It is essential to protect the rights of both minorities and majorities, but one should never be protected at the expense of the other.
Chris Steyn (15:09.639)
Thank you. That was Democratic Alliance MP Willie Aucamp speaking to BizNews, and I am Chris Steyn. Thank you, Willie.
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