Corruption-busting lawyers watch their lives implode as they head to the dock

In this interview with BizNews, two top lawyers – who cracked open the Corruption Mafia at Fort Hare University – but are in the dock themselves on Monday, describe the implosion of their careers and their lives over the past year. Sarah Burger of Horizon Forensics says: "We do believe that it's politically charged…When you've done nothing wrong…and you're completely innocent and there's not a shred of evidence against you, and you know that the work is completely above board and that the system is being used against you…Well, you're completely powerless." Meanwhile, those responsible for the corruption they uncovered are escaping justice. "Not a single person – barring one – has been arrested…. Those people are scot-free. And I've got no doubt that the university is once again overrun by the very syndicates that we put our lives on the line to dismantle." Bradley Conradie – who used to serve as judge in the Labour Court for over 12 years – says: "We are ordinary people who were doing the right thing for six years and we never in our wildest dreams believed that we would ever spend a day of our lives in jail, let alone be pulled through a long case because it just couldn't happen to us in South Africa…let me tell you, if it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone.".Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here..Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here..If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___.Chris Steyn (00:02.55).A year ago, two corruption-busting lawyers were arrested Hollywood style. We're catching up with them now. Welcome Bradley Conradie and Sarah Burger..Bradley Conradie (00:13.038).Thank you, Chris..Sarah Burger (00:13.172).Hi Chris..Chris Steyn (00:15.01).Sarah, May start with you. What is the National Prosecuting Authority telling you? What are they doing?.Sarah Burger (00:21.983).Chris, I, you know, it's on the one hand, I mean, there's two things that are happening parallel or many things that are happening at the same time. The one is I wanted to put in representations to be released out of this matter. I've said before that there is absolutely no evidence against me in this matter. But I've heard from my attorney that the prosecutor said that he's not prepared to hear my representations at this stage..So I'm being dragged into this matter for a prolonged period of time. There are other things that are happening as well, which is just so totally malicious. On the other hand, other prosecutors within the very same office have subpoenaed Horizon Forensics and myself to be a witness in a matter against a former employee for an investigation that Horizon Forensics did..Yeah, I mean, I just, I don't understand how that on the one hand, you know, we are supposedly fraud and corruption accused. But on the other hand, we must also be witnesses for the matters that were purportedly obtained on the basis of fraud and corruption, which is, it's just mind-frazzling, mind-frazzling..Chris Steyn (01:47.768).Now, the NPA has also obtained a preservation order over the assets of the accused. How is this going to affect you? Firstly, Bradley..Bradley Conradie (01:58.914).Well, we haven't seen any order. We've heard about it last week on Thursday via News24. These orders are generally given in chambers without the other side getting an opportunity to state a case. Yet within a short period of time, either the NPA or the university, can be no one else, took that court order and published it in the newspaper. And I learned about that at 9.30 on Thursday night. But as I sit here today, I still do not have a copy of that order. So I do not know what it says other than the few lines of actual detail that's contained in the article. In our view, there is no basis for that order..It is a year later now. It is completely malicious. It's designed to destroy us, which is consistent with what has happened to us in the past year by the NPA. And it is shocking that the prosecutor in this matter, and in fact, the director of that office in the Eastern Cape, have been allowed to pursue this matter..And that Shamila Batohi – and I'll mention it personally because she knows about this matter. It's been brought to her attention by various people. She has, as far as we know, taken no action to rein in rogue units. And they're rogue because we know that other people in the same office, they've been in touch with us. They want to continue their work with us. But a specific advocate was handpicked by the disgraced and now disbanded Political Killing Task Team to ensure that maximum pain is inflicted on us..So I can't answer your question as to what is in it, but it is a drastic measure designed to strip us of our assets, supposedly temporarily, and which has an impact on our ability to work and to earn a living. That much will be for sure, but we will oppose that in the strongest terms..Bradley Conradie (04:21.304).But we do not know what it says. We don't even say have of the decency of having been given to it. It was more important for the print media to go out. Luckily, we insisted on the right of reply so that we could get our point of view across..Read more: BN Briefing: EED beats BEE; More abuse for Fort Hare duo; Bitcoin breakthrough; SA's US Ambassador.Chris Steyn (04:38.99).Sarah, you..Sarah Burger (04:44.927).I'm at a loss. You know, I said it previously as well, we conducted a full audit of our work, you know, because the question in our minds, you know, what did we do wrong here? You know, and we did the work and we did it well..And, you know, what I've found in my own audit for both entities is that we have affidavits where the head of legal of the university, two executive members, in addition to that, have come under oath and confirmed that BCHC were their attorneys of choice, generally. The same applies for Horizon Forensics..Horizon, there's another affidavit which was filed in the Oscar Mabuyane answering papers when the President of the Republic of South Africa was still cited as a respondent, as well as the Special Investigations Unit..Now I mentioned it previously, but Horizon's work was audited from 2019 to 2023. They in fact visited our offices at Horizen in Cape Town because of the sensitive information that was contained in some of the investigations. The lead up to that was a meeting with executives at the university and PWC and ourselves to make an arrangement on how we address the audit, given the volume of data and given how far back they'd gone in the audit. As a result of that audit, we produced certain reports for PWC that they required and a declaration from myself..Now, one of the reports that we produced, they wanted to know, you know, when they quantify matters how many people were disciplined or taken to a disciplinary hearing, for instance. So Horizon, based on its investigations and its knowledge of these people going through investigations and disciplinary processes, prepared a report of these disciplinary matters. And that was annexed to those papers in the Oscar Mabuyane matter. And with a paragraph to say that Horizon Forensics had prepared….Sarah Burger (07:05.107).…this report and submitted it to PriceWaterhouseCoopers as part of its ongoing investigations at the university. This is aside from the fact that we've got a contract in place with the university. We've been paid three times post our arrests for work on the basis that the university needed to follow due diligence and confirm that the work had been completed..Those were the exact words. They then offered to pay us legal costs and interests on the money that was outstanding for 12 months in varying stages..So I'm at a genuine loss as to how on the one hand we are being prosecuted for the work that was confirmed in several criminal complaints as well, signed by the executive, where he said, Horizon did this in 2021, Horizon did that in 2022..This work was never obtained from any kind of corrupt relationship. This work was given to us because we supported law enforcement, we supported the university, and we had the institutional knowledge to take matters forward when evidence was clearly purged or not available to other forensic investigators which do operate…..Sarah Burger (08:21.981).…in the university. So I just feel like people are not coming forward and being honest about where their instructions came from, because the instructions did not come from who they say it came from. It came from the top office. And that is why there is a contract in place signed by the executive. That's why there were affidavits in place signed by the executive and the bulk of the work for BCHC…..Sarah Burger (08:50.899).…which I was not involved in, and neither was Bradley, will show..Bradley Conradie (08:54.094).I wanted to speak to that Sarah, sorry to cut you because I'm probably more qualified to speak to that..Bradley Conradie (09:01.25).We have done an audit. We spent a lot of time on this. And we can safely say that the majority, vast majority of the instructions came from the head of legal at the university to other members of our firm. We sit today with matters that we have never seen before or heard of before. I have never ever in person met the head of legal. I've never received an instruction from him..I would have been on a few occasions in a meeting with a whole lot of people where she would be in attendance if it required her input along with the Vice-Chancellor, but I do not know her. So I would say about up to 80 % of the work that came through BCHC, I had absolutely no involvement with it at all. There were other professionals who had the relationship and who did the work and it was done without my input or my consent wasn't even required in order to do that work..This is known to the university. It is probably not known to the police who have not conducted an investigation into us. Till today, we have not been questioned. Not a single question. We have offered our assistance to the police during our incarceration. Our lawyers have offered it post our release and they've never ever taken us up on the matter..And we know and we have evidence that about six months after our arrest, they only started investigating and they couldn't find, they do not even know what work we have done at the university..Yet they rushed off, arrested us and put us in jail on the Easter weekend and kept me there for 14 days because they…They vigorously oppose bail to use their words only to tell me on the day that I finally got a bail hearing that they don't oppose my bail. Now, if that doesn't scare you, then I don't know what does. None of these have been put before anyone. It's not contained in the police docket. They have it because they have our computers..Chris Steyn (11:16.654).Sarah..Bradley Conradie (11:27.474).They have our cell phones and all of that information comes off there. They have worked their way through it. They have seen fit, which they're not allowed to do, to simply exclude it from the docket..And the university's top brass who were consulted on this have sat silently without putting up their hand to say, actually, the work did not go to Mr. Conradie. This is the person that the work went to. And the work was done with distinction..We could not get the university off our backs. And I am on record for years having said, can we please stop working for this client? They are taking up too much of our time. And we even told them we want out. We cannot dedicate so much time to servicing you..And I got kicked back to say, no, please, you've got to continue. You've got to continue because we produced results. I would say we had a 98% success rate over the six-year period all of which is forgotten and everyone has got memory loss in order to protect themselves from whatever it is they need protection from. They do not know who we are. We are strangers Yet I returned 350 lever arch vials to the university they paid BCHC a substantial amount of money. This was about three months after our release and then we get accused, well before that already we were accused of not having done the work, of being effectively involved in murder and intimidation in order to force contracts out of the university..It's utter nonsense. They approached us for help based on our skills. But people are sitting back and just allowing this to unfold. You have dockets that are prepared by low-level police officers that.Quite frankly, I have no idea what they were doing. People that were linked to the Task team, the disgraced Task team that the new Minister, thank goodness, put out of business because they were rogue..Chris Steyn (13:42.88).Sarah, why was your case postponed last time?.Sarah Burger (13:47.655).Hey, the NPA said that they were applying for a racketeering certificate. Now, you'll recall from a couple of months ago, well, now a year ago, because we now have that anniversary, as you said, they had already said in March last year that they had a racketeering certificate. That's what they told the court. Now we get back in September and they say they haven't even applied for it. I mean, no one points out these kinds of cardinal mistruths. And we are not sure now whether this racketeering certificate has in fact been applied for..So we're going to appear on Monday, which is now six months after that..In the interim, our lives are on hold. There is a great deal of uncertainty. And now we are being hit with this asset order, which is, I mean, talk about trying to demolish us in every respect of our careers and our capability to take care of our families and run our lives and be professionals. I just feel like it's gross, gross constitutional abuses. And I wonder if the failure to take my representations is as a result of trying to push this asset order through for punishment..Chris Steyn (15:13.698).What do you believe is behind your persecution and your prosecution?.Sarah Burger (15:23.849).I think it's become a conglomerate of things. think first of all, I'm sticking to exactly what we felt from the very beginning. We do believe that it's politically charged because otherwise people, if they were happy to do a proper investigation, they would have taken us up on the offer to speak with us. They would have come to us and engaged us and they wouldn't have taken the diehard approach to persecute us..They would have said if that's the evidence, that's the evidence, you know, and, you know, withdrawn the charges, but they refused to speak to us..And in addition to that, I think there's a major concern from certain executives in the university's office that they may be implicated in a sense of failure, you know, on oversight and things like that, and they're too afraid to come forward and confirm..But the reality is that the documents speak for themselves. And why must we wait to court to purge these documents which are going to speak for themselves? There is no funny business here..I just want to give an example from Horizon's side. In our contract with the university, which was negotiated over a protracted period of years, given to the head of legal, sitting in the executive office. When it came time to sign the contract, an addendum was prepared by the university, a well thought out addendum, which required that we continue to support law enforcement post termination of the contract. Now we didn't include that. That was drafted internally with a closed list of matters that we were completing..What people don't know is that we were so afraid at the time when all of these murders were taking place that we didn't want to travel anymore. We didn't want to actually be part of this university anymore or part of the investigative team. And when we got the shocking news that our instructing client was arrested, what did we do? We picked up the phone. I picked up the phone and spoke to the Vice-Chancelloor and said, I can't do this anymore. I want out. And that is when I prepared a list in conjunction with Bradley..Read more: Worldview: Trump nominates conservative media critic as US ambassador to South Africa.Sarah Burger (17:47.571).We discussed it and he said, get out. And so I prepared a list which he submitted to the university on behalf of Horizon and said, these are the last matters that we're working on, but we can hand these over to whoever wants to work on them. But I was requested at the insistence of the executive office that I must complete the matters….Bradley Conradie (18:10.318).…and be available post-termination of the contract to support law enforcement, which means they needed us in order to testify in the over 20 criminal cases that we have lodged and that was signed by the executive of the university..And Chris, it is shocking that we've lodged those complaints since 2020. They range from individuals stealing 6 million to 24 million rand. All the evidence is there. We've given in certain affidavits up to 7,000 pages of actual evidence. Not a single person barring one has been arrested. That's the one that they now want Horizon and Sarah to testify. They've got all the details. We've given The Hawks. The NPA is in possession of it. They have not moved against a single person. Those people are scot-free..And I've got no doubt that the university is once again overrun by the very syndicates that we put our lives on the line to dismantle. Three different syndicates. We took them apart and we did not have bodyguards. Neither of us. We can't afford that. We never could…where every single executive in the university, all 15 or 16 or whatever it is, were walking around with two bodyguards around the clock, although they had not had a single involvement in the fight against corruption there. We did it between BCHC and Horizon, and some of them just simply claimed the credit for having done it. But none of those people have been held accountable..The one that that Horizon and Sarah have been asked to give evidence in, we recovered two million rand civilly from her. After suing her for 1.5 million rand, they settled on two million rand. That's the only case that now five years later is being pursued..Yet our case was opened up in January 2024. Two months later, we were arrested….Bradley Conradie (20:24.532).…spent the Easter weekend and longer in prison…haven't moved one step to date..So all of this is part of a campaign. You asked Sarah about what is behind this. We maintain it's political. That is why you had Bheki Cele there, you had Masemola there, and you had Khumalo there, the latter being the head of the disgraced Political Killings Task Team…, all sitting in court..It is only dawned upon us now, with all these fake degree scandals coming out particularly from Forr Hare, that it's not just about the Premier who's implicated. There are other people in his cabinet who are in the same position. His predecessors, the former Minister … also benefited from it..So we opened up Pandora's Box when we exposed this, because if they actually must move against anyone, I think half of the people in government will have to be held accountable for not having degrees and that is not going to happen. They are not going to be held to account..Chris Steyn (21:42.564) –.Bradley, last time we spoke, you said you were going to take action against the police, legal action for your arrests and prosecution. What is happening with that?.Bradley Conradie (21:52.206).So we've submitted our letter of demand, which must be done within six months, if you're suing the State. We've issued a detailed letter against various police commissioners in various provinces, just given how the matter has gone. That's on the one end..On the second end, we have formally lodged the complaint with the Portfolio Committee on Police. We are demanding an investigation into who ordered our arrest, why was a jet paid for by the South African public made available to transport Sarah and myself to East London and used on that same weekend to pick up two other accused, I think in two different provinces..And then the arrival of…I think it would be safe to say hundreds of police people at court when we appeared. The roads were closed. There were cars, armed guns, people armed with automatic rifles right down the road because the Minister was in town, the Head of Police was in town, his entire cohort was in town, the Head of Crime Intelligence was in town..All of that while at the same time we know in South Africa hundreds of people have been murdered each and every day. Women are being abused, are being raped, there are home invasions, assaults. We're talking about hundreds per day..I've looked at the stats recently and I think you have seen the photographs of the people that came to fetch us, if you watch the American television, the SWAT people have nothing on the people that came storming into my office with balaclavas, helmets, R5 rifles, two pistols, stun grenades. We are those people when ordinary South Africans are just trying to stay safe. And that is what I want the Portfolio Committee to look into and to call those people to Parliament..Bradley Conradie (24:13.024).And we have requested that we be allowed to be there because we want to look at them and we want answers from them. We are not going to go anywhere. They are trying to put us out of business. They think that we are going to disappear, but they need to know one thing. The more they take from us, the more they strip us of what we have, the more difficult it's going to become for them..Sarah and I have one unique advantage over probably thousands of people that are subjected to political abuse in this country. We are both lawyers, and we are good lawyers. I've been a famous lawyer for nearly 20 years. I've stood up in the Constitutional Court myself, and I've argued precedent-setting cases, and I've had the assistance of Sarah in doing that. I do not need lawyers if it ever came down to that, and we will not stop..We will hold each and every person in this chain accountable within the law. They are not going to get away from it. They made the biggest mistake ever when they thought they're simply going to do to us what they have done to countless people..We have a Constitution which we like to brag to everyone in the world and say it's the best constitution. I'll tell South Africa now it's utter rubbish, not the Constitution, the enforcement of it. It doesn't exist because I couldn't even enforce it. I've had so many of my rights abused as a lawyer with access to the best lawyers, as friends and colleagues. Those rights do not exist. And that is wrong. They should be there for everyone..Chris Steyn (26:00.782).Lastly, Sarah, how are you holding up ahead of your next appearance?.Sarah Burger (26:05.919).I, yeah, this is, it's completely uncharted territory. I just, you know, getting up and I know I have to get up in the morning. I know I have to go and, you know, attend to certain things and be professional. But yeah, it's not easy and I'm not happy and I'm not well, unfortunately. I'm not happy and I'm not well and I just, I don't know how much more of this I can actually handle, you know..When you've done nothing wrong and you are not, you're completely innocent and there's not a shred of evidence against you. And you know that the work is completely above board and that the system is being used against you. Well, you're completely powerless. You're completely powerless because no one's listening and you've got to just follow the process. You've just got to follow the process and wait in line while your life falls apart around you..Chris Steyn (27:08.248).Bradley..Bradley Conradie (27:10.798).I'm besides myself. I'm strong and I remain strong because I get a lot of support, psychological support, emotional support, support from friends, and I've had to do a lot of introspection and reflection..But I'm deeply affected by what has happened. I've got 11-year-old twin daughters that are aware of this. They are aware that I used to serve for more than 12 years as a judge in the Labour Court, which they, in their minds, I worked for the government and I had to sit them down one day and tell them that when I disappeared, I was not out of the country on business over the Easter weekend because they're smart enough to have known that I would never ever miss an Easter weekend with them. And I did. I couldn't speak to them. I couldn't see them. And they sat me down and said, Dad, what is wrong? Please don't lie to us. We want to know what is happening. And I had to tell them that I went to jail. And that broke my heart because, like with most children, they look up to their father. They told me they had the worst Easter ever. I promised them, amidst my busy schedule, as it was, that we would spend a weekend together. And I couldn't fulfill that promise..So I've got to manage that. Every time I pack a bag to go somewhere for work, my children get depressed. They come and they ask me, where are you going? When will you be back? Please promise that you'll be back tonight..That is the direct consequence of what has happened. And these people that have done this to us, unfortunately go to bed at night and they don't give a damn about the damage that they've caused..Now I've got to explain to my family, which I've had to do on Thursday night, Friday night, that we may end up with nothing. Everything that I've worked for may be under preservation because of what has happened. And I may not be able to look after them the way I've been able to do..Bradley Conradie (29:33.486).…built on 30 years of expertise and the creation of wealth, all because some fools and and compromised people, deeply, deeply compromised people have decided that they will do what is a national pastime in South Africa, scapegoat other people, sit in dark rooms and figure out how to abuse your power in order to save your own ass..That is what has happened. So when I walk to the door at night, my children are filled with relief that I've actually come home because they are so scared that I'm never going to come home..So we'll start a new chapter, but they can be assured that we will fight this order and we will continue to expose. We will not be negative. The wheel has turned. and it will turn, you cannot hide the truth away. And my plea to South Africans is don't be naive. Don't stand around the fire and speak about corruption. Don't get enjoyment out of what you see as the fall of Sarah and myself..We are ordinary people who were doing the right thing for six years and we never in our wildest dreams believed that we would ever spend a day of our lives in jail, let alone be pulled through a long case because it just couldn't happen to us in South Africa. Or let me tell you, if it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone. And people need to wake up and they need to stand up for their rights so that we can hold these people to account or they will try and destroy your life. They think nothing about doing it, but we will hold them accountable. Chris, that is the promise that I'm making. I've made it to my children. I've made it to myself because that is the right thing to do. We're not here to just get off. That's not enough for us. Let us off on Monday. It doesn't stop. We want every single person to answer….Bradley Conradie (31:55.726).….for what they have done to us and the reason why they had to do it. And we will continue to pursue that till our last days..Chris Steyn (32:07.054).Thank you. That was Bradley Conradie and Sarah Burger speaking to BizNews. I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, Bradley. Thank you, Sarah..Bradley Conradie (32:16.238).Thank very much Chris..Read also.Anthea Jeffery: EED must replace BEE. Vouchers will transform SA via new deal for truly needy(Ret.) Col. 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Corruption-busting lawyers watch their lives implode as they head to the dock

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